Yep, simple spearchuckers are a blast  

 I would love to see one of your bows and your arrows!  I am making stickbows right now myself, from saplings leaving the bark on as a backing.  So far in 3 months I have had 3 duds due to flawed wood, (can't have too many knots...) and 5 successes though a couple aren't completely finished but are tillered.
   I love making atlatls from a branch, I really see no drawback in distance, speed or accuracy from a fancy atlatl to a branch atlatl.  I even made one while I was out hiking one time, I made the atlatl from a birch branch and then I went to a defunk beaver dam and found a dried out spruce sapling that was straight lying near the dam and oila! beaver made atlatl dart, it was well balanced as it was and hit point first nicely, I was rather surprised.

This is exactly what I was driving at. It seems to me that nowadays we get too wrapped up in technology and have a tendency to forget simpler designs work just as well as those with all the additional bells and whistles. Some of the modern spearthrowers I've seen are works of art, but when push comes to shove, nothing can beat my forked stick.

Thumbs up to what KT wrote!
How do you think they made these throwers of which I sent you pictures? Man, they date to 25'000 years ago, they carved bones with a stone blade! That's amazing!
Greetings,
Mauro.

Good point,  personally I wanna sell my compound bow,  they seem complicated to maintain,  spent $350 for it,  ahhh the things we do to waste money -_-

My first bow was a rattan one who a guy sold me for 125€ (about 100 bucks more or less).
The bow served me well for a couple of tournaments and then bended inexplicably!
I then bought some rattan for the astronomical expense of 7 Euro (5 bucks?) and made 2 bows and a crossbow's bow with it.  
I gave away one of the bows and am still using the other one, 2 years after I built it with an axe and a rasp  
No way I make my self arrows, though: I usually grab one or two from someone else's quiver  
Greetings,
Mauro.
 
EDIT:
Dave, why don't you post pictures of your self made hunting gear? I'd like to see it!!
Make new posts or use existing ones  

Quote from kentuckythrower on Feb 6^th, 2012, 3:26pm:

 
I'm going to go against the majority and say this sounds a little far fetched.  I think you're mixing up your skill at bowhunting with the quality of the bow.  Many people will try to make up for lack of skill with technology.  However, when you have both, you have a combination that's unbeatable.

thabaill,  
 
That bow you made was more than sufficient to bring down just about anything here in North America. There have been cases over here where folks have succeeded in dropping Whitetail deer using simple bows with draw weights as low as 25lbs. Manufacturers of modern bows will have you believe that their particular product is the "only" way to successfully hunt, but this isn't the case at all. All they're trying to do is generate income...buy this...buy that...on and on.  
 
Please don't get me wrong here, I am a big proponent of advanced technology, but when it comes to primitive weapons such as slings, spearthowers, bow, etc., I want to keep them just as simple as possible. These weapons have been around for God knows how many thousands of years and despite all the hype foisted on us my various manufactures, the basic examples are more than effective in getting the job done.  
 
While I'm at it, let's talk a bit about personal satidfaction in relation to simple homemade weapons vs. expensive commercial versions of the same thing. With homemade, we do everything from start to finish...absolutely everything is the result of us as individuals. Seeing how we're relatively simple folk, our homemade weapons are simple too...and diabolically effective after we master their use. With the commercial versions, we, as individuals have effectively been taken out of the equation. Folks are duped into buying this...and that...and by the way...it just won't work until you buy this gadget too. HOGWASH!!!!!!!!! Personally speaking, there's nothing quite like making your own equipment and learning how to use it with effect. With my simple slings, spearthrowers, and bows, I can do just as well as anything being sold in the market commercailly. Plus, I have the satisfaction of knowing it's all my doing.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

On a side, I invite you archers to look for a book called "Catene operative dell'arco preistorico - Incontro di archeologia sperimentale".
Authors were P. Bellintani and F. Cavulli, and it was published in 2006 in Trento.  
They've found some Bronze Age bows in a village in Northern Italy, and have built replicas, using them for hunting.
It's a very nice book as it compare a dried bow with a green one, like these found in the village  
Even if it's written in Italian, it's full of pictures and will surely be a precious add to any archer's library!
Greetings,
Mauro.

One hour ago, maybe,  I didn`t have an atlatl, but I do now.  It is pretty primitive so I just use this thread to show it.  
I cut down a couple of hazel saplings for darts some days ago, just in case, so I just whittled out dimples in the ends before I used them.  One is as long as I am, 180 centimeters, the other is slightly longer.  
The atlatl is ash, I think.  Almost as long as my arm, before I could cut it down by trial and error to right lenght I realized I could make a "dart rest" with the spare lenght.  
It is slightly havier than I wished, but it is the one I found, and it doubles as a small club .
 
I have just done some 20ish test throws and is pleasantly surprised.  I did play around a little last summer, learned the basic throwing, and now it went surprisingly well.  Meaning darts went point first pretty often in the general direction I wanted on short range.  Maybe I`ll make some duct tape fletchings later.  This stuff is just for fun, I leave it on site on a nice practice spot, and the more unconspicous the better.  The kindergarten has their "spot" as shown near by and there is plenty of curious kids around during the day.
timann

Very nice!  Simple branch atlatls are a lot of fun.  Also, you can use roots of trees, and they have a lot of room for figural carving.  I like Eastern Red Cedar best for that.  I made one look like an ugly toad once.

Quote from timann on Apr 24^th, 2012, 2:43pm:

 
Absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  The cool thing about making darts that I've found is that once you have the materials at hand, they're super fast.  It takes me about fifteen minutes to make a dart and that includes cutting the feathers for fletching, chewing the sinew, all of it.  The really time-consuming part is collecting the materials and getting them all together.

When you take the bark off, the wood will split as the water in it evaporates.  To stop it from splitting, simply rub in some vegatable oil or some type of fat.

Quote from Bill Skinner on Apr 25^th, 2012, 1:47pm:

 
I volunteer my stomach!  
 
Just gave you a visual didn't I?  

I thought you were about to start scrapeing and whitteling to make them look pretty while they were still green.

Here's the latest information I have been able to find out at archaeological sites over here in the U.S... Generally speaking, spearthrowers (I refuse to use the term atalatl any more) generally run the length of the arm from the shoulder to the finger tip of the owner. In other words they were sized to the individual and each one is unique. These devices could be as simple as a forked twig trimmed down to serve the purpose, or a much more elaborate contraption made of an antler/bone/ivory hook and handle. Either way...it's all the same when push comes to shove.  
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that even though we can take a spearthrower and launch a dart much further than than we could throw by hand, this weapon "system" was much more effective a close range...just a few yards/meters. I don't know how many of you have ever hunted deer and the like, but they have an uncanny capability to see motion...they are somehow able to see/sense any movement outside the ordinary. Hence...in order to hunt deer with a spear thrower, you don't want to move a lot. with a spearthower, all you need to do is flick your wrist and away the dart goes...with a great deal more force than if hand thrown.
 
Also...with primitive weapons, the idea IS NOT to out an out kill your prey in one shot!!! The idea is to incapacite it to the point you can get up to it to make the "kill". Forget all this modern theory of sportsmanship!!! When it comes to feeding yourself and a family, sportsmanship is completely out the window...we need meat!!!
 
Another thing...drive this image of a lone hiunter out of your mind when you're thinking about hunting with a spearthrower. Evidence has shown hunting in groups is the most effective means. The most effective method we are able to use is to drive game into a 'kill zone" and shoot them enmass. It's an absolutely brutal business, but it brings home the meat. I have participated in these hunts and can  tell you that you can lay up enough meat to last you a year. The idea is to incapacite the game to the point you can get on it and bash it's head in to kill it.  
 
While I'm at it here. let me tell you this...big game...namely deer in my area area, are STUPID ANIMALS!!! They can be herded and driven like catle and I cannot see why so many fiolks are so wrapped up in deer "hunting". Truth be known. my son an I used to lay up enough meat we ended up having to donate the majority of it to the local food bank so it wouldn't go to waste. Unlike many hunters in this area, we went for meat and disregarded "racks". I mean WTF??? Over??? The idea behind hunting at the subsistence level is getting food...not antlers. There are are folks that come in here from all over the country to get "racks"...antlers. Hell. if you want antlers, just walk through the woods and pick them up from the shed. My son and i are all about meat...food, and can't see the attraction folks have to antlers...Damned New Yorkers!!!
 
While I'm on a roll here. my son and I hunt with simple homemade wooden bows, and both of us are absolutelty mind blown with all the modern weaponry and accoutrements coming in here for the sole purpose of "bagging" as deer. Danmned!!!!!!!!!! Camouflage...cover scents...high velocity rifles...laser range finders...ha ha ha. I guess some folks are as stupid as the deer. Let me tell you what's the truth here, animals are STUPID!!!!!!!!!!! All the crap you may see on the television hunting programmes is a load of horse dump. My son and I hunt in our normal work clothes. Siince I am old and my eyesight's failing, my son is the "shooter". If we need meat, I will go out and herd the deer to him. he takes up a position and I swing around the deer to herd them into our "kill zone"'. he takes the shot and we both run the deer down...finish it off with an axe to the head. That may seem really brutal to a lot of folks, but to us, that's life.  
 
Sorry...i have digressed. sperarthowers are actually deisgnd for close range work. based upon my experience with wild animals, we can get really close to them without spooking them. With a spear thrower, all it'd take is th flick of the wrist within 15 meters or so to get the job done. Ulike "modern" humting, the primary issue out ancesotrs faced was getting meat and "sportamanship" was out the woidow.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

damnit!!! typeos.

Very interesting stuff Kentucky.  It would be interesting to see the reactions of "primitive" people who actually had to survive by hunting if exposed to our modern day view on it. And I agree with you, I never could understand the attraction of antlers.  
 
 
 

I, personally, like large deer with large racks.  More meat and the rack supplies all sorts of tools.  Pressure flakers, notching tools, batons, handles and a whole bunch more tools.  And one more thing, only about 30% of the live weight of the animal is actually edible, so bigger is better if you are hunting for food.

I think I may need to clarify my earlier remark at this point as I detect some consternation amongst the readers here. IMO, the first and foremost object of hunting is to harvest meat and everything else is entirely secondary. I completely understand why some folks wish to shoot for antlers, but let me tell you the truth, a big bodied doe is just as good as a 12 point buck when all is said and done. My son and I have killed our share (and more) of both and they both eat.  
 
I reckon we're lucky here in that we've got the property to hunt on and have access to a really big herd of deer that never seem to be under any sort of hunting pressure...besides us two. In our area, the farmers are being overrun by deer and get what are called depredation permits. This means it's flat out open season on deer. My son and I have become so effective using these so called "primitive" weapons, we have farmers actually giving us their permits just to thin out the herd a little bit. Between the two of us, we lay up so much meat we are actually feeding about twelve indigent families in the county. When we look at these animals, we don't pay any attention to antlers, but do concern ourselves with weight...the idea is to get as much meat with the least expenditure of effort.
 
Now...as far as using as much of the animal as possible. I will salvage as much usable material as I can. Being a flintknapper myself, if there's antler to be had, I will cut it up to make pressure flakers and such, I also get all the sinew I can lay my hands on. The hide is tanned and turned into backpacks and such...or cut into tugs if we're running low on tie down material. The waste is fed to the dogs. By the time we get done with a deer, there ain't nothing left of it but a memory.
 
I have had dealings with "hunters" coming in here from large cities...primarily NYC, Chicago, and the like. These folks have watched more hunting shows and videos that I could shake a stick at and tell me they know all there is to know about the ins and outs of bagging a big buck. They've got equipment with them that looks like it came from a Star Wars movie and despite me telling them they don't need all that stuff, they will look at me like I'm some sort of ignorant hill jack and off they go. At the end of the day, they come in dragging their tail and all dejected looking. What really sets them off is when we're standing around talking...them with no deer in hand, and here comes my son dragging in one, carrying nothing but a stickbow and a couple of arrows...then saying there's another one laying dead up on the hill. My advice to all you city folks...LISTEN!!!
 
While I'm thinking about it, did you know that a deer actually walks on ready made arrowheads? If you're really interested in using all of the deer, take the hoof apart and have a look at the toe bones. Each hoof has two little pointed bones that can be modified in a matter of minutes into serviceable arrowheads. All it takes is honing down the point a little bit and boring a hole in the base for your arrowshaft. They work like a dream too!!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

No consternation here. I'm not a deer hunter but I still get the same gut check you do when I see the "whack'em and stack'em" crowd. I hate the over commercialization of hunting.  
 
Wish I lived next to one of your guys. I would love to learn how to deer hunt from an expert. No one in my family hunts or even likes primitive weapons so I've never had the guts to go into the field by myself lest I screw up butchering the deer horribly.  One of these days maybe.  

Quote from timann on May 9^th, 2012, 3:42pm:

 
It's awesome to hear that you're enjoying the atlatl.  One thing to try is throwing from 20-40 meters and getting used to the arc of the dart.  This will help your accuracy a lot.  I also find that if I mentally imagine I'm throwing a ball to a friend when I'm doing it, I tend to be more accurate.  The long distance shots can be startlingly accurate with an atlatl, because your body sort of knows where a thrown object will end up.

I like hunting.  And, no, you didn't put me off, I have pretty much the same idea about a lot of modern hunters.  
 
I managed a place for a rich guy for several years, he and his buddies would show up with all the high tech gear, the latest compound bows, and all that neat stuff.  Freaking 7mm and .300 Weatherby Magnum rifles for a whitetail.  They couldn't kill a deer if it didn't have its nose in a pile of corn in front of a shooting house.  Most couldn't shoot worth a dam, either, because they never practiced and they were afraid of the recoil of their rifles.  Before I quit, I spent a LOT of time blood trailing gut shot deer.
 
I really didn't consider those people hunters, they came up to get drunk and get away from their wives, with some time in the woods thrown in.  And they shot deer, mostly does and small bucks because they weren't smart enough to figure out that the large bucks usually won't come to a spot where you just shot a doe with a rifle that was designed to be used in Africa.
 
KT, have you gone deer hunting with a dart caster and darts?  The advantage is no noise, you don't have the thump of the bow string.  Disadvantage is all that motion, you need a brush blind or to be behind a tree when you throw.  Never tried a tree stand, it would probably work, you better have a good safety harness or some real soft ground.

Quote from muddog15 on May 10^th, 2012, 9:07pm:

 
With 4ft darts it's the spine issue.  They're short enough that they don't flex, so your dart tip is probably going every which way on release.  You should try longer darts if you can get the materials - at least five feet, preferably six or even seven feet.

A couple of thoughts, 1.  You can make the dart flex if you put a heavy point on it, a  heavy wire wrap or a couple of nuts screwed on the end should do it.  2.  Above the Artic Circle, neither the darts or the throwing board flex when they are thrown, Little posted a video not too long ago that showed a seal hunt with them.  Look at his throwing style, it is not quite the same as what is used by people with flexable dart casters.  3.  I wasn't worth a hoot for the first couple of times, it does take some getting used to, check out the World Atlatl Assoc. on Paleoplanet, there are several links that show how to throw.  

Yeah,  its best when longer range than the vid I shown then it would be in an arch rather than a straight line,  when the dart pans out the weight forwardness balances it like a small football with flights on it,  thats when its most deadly.  And you dont need to use a flexible atlatl,  Ive used flexible darts and it still works fine throws em far too.

You all have got me thinking now.  I haven't messed much with the atlatl yet because I was thinking that the atlatl and darts would be too difficult to make.  Mark was playing with a very primitive one which was working surprisingly well and I started coming up with ideas for improvements.  It wouldn't be that difficult to make a simple atlatl and bamboo darts with big nail points and duct tape fletching.  More later....

atlatl=almost any big game on the planet
slings=almost anything smaller than big game,  maybe some medium but mostly suited for small critters cough cough and self defense/offense against people if the need arises...

I find atlatl pretty amazing too.  It`s rather easy to make a simple but functional atlatl and darts.  And after practicing slinging atlatling isn`t that hard.
 
Well, aiming was pretty impossible until I found this video.  I found it last summer and played around a little then (I now realize I used way to thin darts), and when the bug bit me a couple of weeks ago I remembered it and was able to aim pretty easily.  Okay, not bullseye accuracy but I could probably hunt with it in a survival situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhrJ6kaojwM

Quote from Atlatlista on May 13^th, 2012, 11:21pm:

 
Bwahahah, welcome to the dark side 'Lista!  

Project Frankenstein.  Cool.  Guess you`ll try those heidenberg spears then
 
As for simple atlatl, I made a new one to have at home, a little prettier, still surprisingly effective.  Gave it a tiny taste of sand paper and teak oil.  
I have even thaught someone atlatling with this stuff, the new atlatl was just half whittled then.  It`s the lower atlatl in the picture.
 
My student is more or less 18 I think, warned me of his bad throwing arm, but with my gear and instructions he was surprisingly good after perhaps 30 minutes.  I gave him using rights to my hidden-in-the-woods gear.
 
Even with not-so-straight saplings with duct tape fletching this gear is impessively accurate (guess I could ,with a bit of luck, hit a mammuth from 20 meters, and roe deer from ... say 7 meters), and it hits hard.
I tested my max distance as a demo for my javelin acquaintance, and sendt hazel saplings apprx 28 meters.  When I attempt to throw his older men(ladies) javelin by hand, my lousy throwing arm send it apprx 16 sad meters.  
timann

Beauty of an atlatl.  I love the way you did the spur, it's very graceful.  I think the sanding and oil gives it a nice, rustic touch - finished but not too finished.

I made another atlatl video just for fun.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YruQaqNhuNU