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Simple Atlatl (Read 15817 times)
timann
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #30 - Apr 27th, 2012 at 10:51am
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:34am:
I thought you were about to start scrapeing and whitteling to make them look pretty while they were still green.

That is what I`d normally do, the trick is to leave a little extra length, as green wood will usually crack in the ends.  It will be a good idea to gather materials for future, in this case, atlatl and darts, and leave them to dry, while working and practicing with green wood now.
timann
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kentuckythrower
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #31 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:04am
 
Here's the latest information I have been able to find out at archaeological sites over here in the U.S... Generally speaking, spearthrowers (I refuse to use the term atalatl any more) generally run the length of the arm from the shoulder to the finger tip of the owner. In other words they were sized to the individual and each one is unique. These devices could be as simple as a forked twig trimmed down to serve the purpose, or a much more elaborate contraption made of an antler/bone/ivory hook and handle. Either way...it's all the same when push comes to shove.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even though we can take a spearthrower and launch a dart much further than than we could throw by hand, this weapon "system" was much more effective a close range...just a few yards/meters. I don't know how many of you have ever hunted deer and the like, but they have an uncanny capability to see motion...they are somehow able to see/sense any movement outside the ordinary. Hence...in order to hunt deer with a spear thrower, you don't want to move a lot. with a spearthower, all you need to do is flick your wrist and away the dart goes...with a great deal more force than if hand thrown.

Also...with primitive weapons, the idea IS NOT to out an out kill your prey in one shot!!! The idea is to incapacite it to the point you can get up to it to make the "kill". Forget all this modern theory of sportsmanship!!! When it comes to feeding yourself and a family, sportsmanship is completely out the window...we need meat!!!

Another thing...drive this image of a lone hiunter out of your mind when you're thinking about hunting with a spearthrower. Evidence has shown hunting in groups is the most effective means. The most effective method we are able to use is to drive game into a 'kill zone" and shoot them enmass. It's an absolutely brutal business, but it brings home the meat. I have participated in these hunts and can  tell you that you can lay up enough meat to last you a year. The idea is to incapacite the game to the point you can get on it and bash it's head in to kill it.

While I'm at it here. let me tell you this...big game...namely deer in my area area, are STUPID ANIMALS!!! They can be herded and driven like catle and I cannot see why so many fiolks are so wrapped up in deer "hunting". Truth be known. my son an I used to lay up enough meat we ended up having to donate the majority of it to the local food bank so it wouldn't go to waste. Unlike many hunters in this area, we went for meat and disregarded "racks". I mean WTF??? Over??? The idea behind hunting at the subsistence level is getting food...not antlers. There are are folks that come in here from all over the country to get "racks"...antlers. Hell. if you want antlers, just walk through the woods and pick them up from the shed. My son and i are all about meat...food, and can't see the attraction folks have to antlers...Damned New Yorkers!!!

While I'm on a roll here. my son and I hunt with simple homemade wooden bows, and both of us are absolutelty mind blown with all the modern weaponry and accoutrements coming in here for the sole purpose of "bagging" as deer. Danmned!!!!!!!!!! Camouflage...cover scents...high velocity rifles...laser range finders...ha ha ha. I guess some folks are as stupid as the deer. Let me tell you what's the truth here, animals are STUPID!!!!!!!!!!! All the crap you may see on the television hunting programmes is a load of horse dump. My son and I hunt in our normal work clothes. Siince I am old and my eyesight's failing, my son is the "shooter". If we need meat, I will go out and herd the deer to him. he takes up a position and I swing around the deer to herd them into our "kill zone"'. he takes the shot and we both run the deer down...finish it off with an axe to the head. That may seem really brutal to a lot of folks, but to us, that's life.

Sorry...i have digressed. sperarthowers are actually deisgnd for close range work. based upon my experience with wild animals, we can get really close to them without spooking them. With a spear thrower, all it'd take is th flick of the wrist within 15 meters or so to get the job done. Ulike "modern" humting, the primary issue out ancesotrs faced was getting meat and "sportamanship" was out the woidow.







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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #32 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:10am
 
sorry about the tyopos in the above.
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #33 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:10am
 
damnit!!! typeos.
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #34 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:12am
 
ha ha ha...you get the point!!!
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Morphy
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #35 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 5:04pm
 
Very interesting stuff Kentucky.  It would be interesting to see the reactions of "primitive" people who actually had to survive by hunting if exposed to our modern day view on it. And I agree with you, I never could understand the attraction of antlers.



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Dan
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #36 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 6:39pm
 
I am also rather disguted by the new "hunting" community. Every as the gear get's more high tech and expensive the less of a hunter you have to be. I also have a similar view of fisherman with sonar and $300 rods and a host of artificial baits. These guys simply miss out on what hunting and fishing is all about, besides product.

I have a pretty good feeling it wasn't entirely "just for meat" and that- even back then- the men enjoyed the hunt and respected the kill.
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I was pretty good at slinging like 10 years ago.
 
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #37 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 7:48pm
 
I, personally, like large deer with large racks.  More meat and the rack supplies all sorts of tools.  Pressure flakers, notching tools, batons, handles and a whole bunch more tools.  And one more thing, only about 30% of the live weight of the animal is actually edible, so bigger is better if you are hunting for food.
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Pikåru
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #38 - Apr 28th, 2012 at 8:40pm
 
Most of the time I keep my mouth shut about hunting. Admittedly I laugh to myself at range finders, and scents and anyone that ambushes big game from a manufactured blind or tree stand on a white tail deer path and laugh most especially at anyone hunting around feeders and salt licks. It's like hunting geese at the city park with a bag of stale popcorn and a five iron.

I prefer larger animals too, more meat and if I need antlers it's easier to pick them up off the ground or through trade. For many people pound for pound game meat is typically many times more expensive than meat from the market.

We primarily harvest elk and sometimes mule deer. I don't think about whether they're smart or dumb but do believe that they are much more experienced and instinctive in the wild than modern man is now.

We usually hunt remote areas and won't bring back anything we're not going to eat so skin, head, bones and fat are all left for the coyotes. We can completely strip an animal down to the bone, taking everything in a few short hours. If I want anything other than meat, it means I have to hike back one or more times to get it. As far as trophies our motto is, "Antlers don't make very good soup."
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I sling. Therefore I am. Tano' Hu I Islan Guahan. http://itanohu.blogspot.com
 
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #39 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:05am
 
I think I may need to clarify my earlier remark at this point as I detect some consternation amongst the readers here. IMO, the first and foremost object of hunting is to harvest meat and everything else is entirely secondary. I completely understand why some folks wish to shoot for antlers, but let me tell you the truth, a big bodied doe is just as good as a 12 point buck when all is said and done. My son and I have killed our share (and more) of both and they both eat.

I reckon we're lucky here in that we've got the property to hunt on and have access to a really big herd of deer that never seem to be under any sort of hunting pressure...besides us two. In our area, the farmers are being overrun by deer and get what are called depredation permits. This means it's flat out open season on deer. My son and I have become so effective using these so called "primitive" weapons, we have farmers actually giving us their permits just to thin out the herd a little bit. Between the two of us, we lay up so much meat we are actually feeding about twelve indigent families in the county. When we look at these animals, we don't pay any attention to antlers, but do concern ourselves with weight...the idea is to get as much meat with the least expenditure of effort.

Now...as far as using as much of the animal as possible. I will salvage as much usable material as I can. Being a flintknapper myself, if there's antler to be had, I will cut it up to make pressure flakers and such, I also get all the sinew I can lay my hands on. The hide is tanned and turned into backpacks and such...or cut into tugs if we're running low on tie down material. The waste is fed to the dogs. By the time we get done with a deer, there ain't nothing left of it but a memory.

I have had dealings with "hunters" coming in here from large cities...primarily NYC, Chicago, and the like. These folks have watched more hunting shows and videos that I could shake a stick at and tell me they know all there is to know about the ins and outs of bagging a big buck. They've got equipment with them that looks like it came from a Star Wars movie and despite me telling them they don't need all that stuff, they will look at me like I'm some sort of ignorant hill jack and off they go. At the end of the day, they come in dragging their tail and all dejected looking. What really sets them off is when we're standing around talking...them with no deer in hand, and here comes my son dragging in one, carrying nothing but a stickbow and a couple of arrows...then saying there's another one laying dead up on the hill. My advice to all you city folks...LISTEN!!!

While I'm thinking about it, did you know that a deer actually walks on ready made arrowheads? If you're really interested in using all of the deer, take the hoof apart and have a look at the toe bones. Each hoof has two little pointed bones that can be modified in a matter of minutes into serviceable arrowheads. All it takes is honing down the point a little bit and boring a hole in the base for your arrowshaft. They work like a dream too!!!









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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #40 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 9:32am
 
That bit about the arrow-head hooves is fantastic information, kentucky.  Have you had any experience making anything out of the dew claws of the deer?  I keep thinking they'd make cool atlatl spurs, but I've never harvested a deer, so I don't know.
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Morphy
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #41 - Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:19pm
 
No consternation here. I'm not a deer hunter but I still get the same gut check you do when I see the "whack'em and stack'em" crowd. I hate the over commercialization of hunting.

Wish I lived next to one of your guys. I would love to learn how to deer hunt from an expert. No one in my family hunts or even likes primitive weapons so I've never had the guts to go into the field by myself lest I screw up butchering the deer horribly.  One of these days maybe.  Smiley
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timann
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #42 - May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm
 
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.   
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight Wink
timann
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #43 - May 9th, 2012 at 3:47pm
 
timann wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm:
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.  
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight Wink
timann


It's awesome to hear that you're enjoying the atlatl.  One thing to try is throwing from 20-40 meters and getting used to the arc of the dart.  This will help your accuracy a lot.  I also find that if I mentally imagine I'm throwing a ball to a friend when I'm doing it, I tend to be more accurate.  The long distance shots can be startlingly accurate with an atlatl, because your body sort of knows where a thrown object will end up.
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timann
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Re: Simple Atlatl
Reply #44 - May 9th, 2012 at 4:02pm
 
Quote:
timann wrote on May 9th, 2012 at 3:42pm:
I have used my branch atlatl for two weeks, and I really like atlatling now.  With my simple hazel sapling darts, with duct tape fletching, I have aquired at least some rudimentary accuracy, so much I`m surpriced myself.  My best shot so far was today, I directly hit the base of the spruce tree shown in the video I posted earlier, from over 20 meters (I paced it to 22 meters).  It was not even pure luck, my other far back shots was almosts and glansing blows.  
Usually I throw from shorter distance, around 10 meters.  I`m more interested in accuracy than distance, and my darts isn`t that straight Wink
timann


It's awesome to hear that you're enjoying the atlatl.  One thing to try is throwing from 20-40 meters and getting used to the arc of the dart.  This will help your accuracy a lot.  I also find that if I mentally imagine I'm throwing a ball to a friend when I'm doing it, I tend to be more accurate.  The long distance shots can be startlingly accurate with an atlatl, because your body sort of knows where a thrown object will end up.

I`m used to the mental ball throwing, that`s how I aim with the sling.  Therefore It seems surprisingly easy to aim with the atlatl even at some distance, I just lift the point of the dart and it usually end up more or less right.

The trick is to calibrate the aim by throwing a tennis ball to a friend (I use my brother or son) from time to time Smiley
I often imagine the tennis ball is a stone, and suddenly throwing a tennis ball is a martial art Cheesy
timann
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