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Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts (Read 48715 times)
Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #15 - Jan 29th, 2012 at 4:38pm
 
I've printed these pictures and am now looking for similar ones in my Region  Smiley
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #16 - Jan 29th, 2012 at 4:53pm
 
This is a subject I know little about but find fascinating.  Is there any way you can share these photographs with us?
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #17 - Jan 29th, 2012 at 5:33pm
 
Of course, I can make a virtual album and send you the link - posting pictures would slow down the usability of the forum I think  Wink
It's late in Italy now, so I'll make it in the next days.
Hillforts in my Region have been scarcely analyzed; they consist of a hill which top has been paved; a road led to the top along the hill's circumference, like a spiral.
The name "Gradina", given to such fortifications, is due to the paved top, reminiscent of a step ("gradino" in Italian). What remains of the road is very evident if viewed from a side, and each turn of the road is called "anello della gradina" (step's ring).
I may have pictures of one of the most famous of these fortifications; I'll post them  Wink
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #18 - Jan 30th, 2012 at 9:25am
 
David, You're entirely correct that throwing from an elevation will increase the range of a sling. In surveying hillforts, at what distance from them will you generally begin to find slingstones? After the weather breaks over here I fully intend on running tests.

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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #19 - Jan 30th, 2012 at 3:45pm
 
I need someone to send me the metrics for baked clay bullets as were used by the Britons. I'm keen on the average size, shape and weight. When I begin running tests, I'd like to use the most authentic bullets I can fabricate. I figure I have about a month to get things ready.
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #20 - Jan 30th, 2012 at 3:49pm
 
kentuckythrower wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 9:25am:
David, You're entirely correct that throwing from an elevation will increase the range of a sling. In surveying hillforts, at what distance from them will you generally begin to find slingstones? After the weather breaks over here I fully intend on running tests.



Conversely, slinging uphill reduces the range considerably. Assuming both the extension and reduction in range to be around 50 m, would mean that attackers would have to cross up to 100m under fire before getting close enough to return it.(?)

Considering that the stones thrown from ancient hilltop forts would have been radially dispersed over a large area, would it be possible to identify a stone as having been thrown from it with any degree of certainty?
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #21 - Jan 30th, 2012 at 7:19pm
 
It appears to me that if a hillfort was attacked and the defenders were using slings, there would be a higher than normal concentration of slingstones strewn on the ground...especially at the point of the main attack. From what I understand, slingstones were selected for proper shape and weight, then hoarded inside these hillforts. If a person could find the ammo dump and see the types of stones these folks preferred using, it probably wouldn't be too hard to sort the slingstones on the outside of the fort.

As I expected, the range would be radically reduced when throwing uphill. If the attacking slingers were paired with men who carried shields, it may be possible for them to get within sling range without suffering too many casualties.
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« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2012 at 2:12am by kentuckythrower »  
 
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #22 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:31am
 
Aussie wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 3:49pm:
kentuckythrower wrote on Jan 30th, 2012 at 9:25am:
David, You're entirely correct that throwing from an elevation will increase the range of a sling. In surveying hillforts, at what distance from them will you generally begin to find slingstones? After the weather breaks over here I fully intend on running tests.



Conversely, slinging uphill reduces the range considerably. Assuming both the extension and reduction in range to be around 50 m, would mean that attackers would have to cross up to 100m under fire before getting close enough to return it.(?)

Considering that the stones thrown from ancient hilltop forts would have been radially dispersed over a large area, would it be possible to identify a stone as having been thrown from it with any degree of certainty?


At Maiden hill, the ammo dumps were made up of large, ideally sized and shaped stones from a river bed some ways off from the main site, so yes, they would be recognizable. But generally, I don't think Maiden Hill or the other Iron Age hillforts have produced this sort of archaeological record (dispersion of shot). There is one example where you can trace very precisely the distribution of shot (lead) in battle condition:

A. V. A. J. Bosman, Pouring Lead in the Pouring Rain:
Making Lead Slingshot under Battle Conditions, dans: C. van Driel-Murray (éd.), Roman
Military Equipment: Experiment and Reality, JRMES 6, 1995, 99–103.

And at Maiden Hill, the Romans used catapults (sharp-throwers) to target the defenders-- you can actually trace ranging shots, and one particularly good gunner, from the pattern of distribution of the bolt heads in the chalky soil on the hillfort.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #23 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 7:59am
 
Hallo fellow slingers!
Here are Google Earth's pictures of English hillforts and these around my town, the "Gradina Poggio" and "Gradina Massignano": http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc428/MauroFiorentini/Iron%20Age%20hillforts...

I've been to the Archaeological Superintendance this morning and have found at least an interesting book about Iron Age English hillforts; I was looking for other things this morning so I didn't copy pages of that book, but I'll return to the Superintendance this Friday and will provide some pdf.
Greetings,
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #24 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 8:38am
 
Kentuckythrower (and anyone):
If you want details and have access to a library with archaeological sources, I suggest looking at the following references. In terms of where slingstones are found, the evidence is all from pits filled with them (presumed to be for use in defence). There were thousands in some cases. Finney discusses sizes etc (I think his monograph is mentioned elsewhere on this site). 

Pete

Avery, M. 1993a. Hillfort defences of southern Britain: Vol. 1 - Ramparts, entrances, dating, prehistory. BAR British Series 231. Oxford: British Archaeological Reports.
Finney, J. B. 2006. Middle Iron Age Warfare of the Hillfort Dominated Zone c. 400 BC to c. 150 BC. BAR British Series 423, Oxford: British Archaeological Reports.
Wheeler, R. E. M. 1943. Maiden Castle, Dorset. Oxford: Research Report of the Committee of the Society of Antiquaries 12.

and for everything you ever wanted to know about the British Iron Age, but were afraid to ask:
Cunliffe, B. W. 2005. Iron Age Communities in Britain. 4th (paperback) ed. Abingdon: Routledge.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #25 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 8:49am
 
Hi Pete!
I'll look for these books next Friday!
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #26 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 1:03pm
 
Hi Pete,
I'll see if my university's library has these references. The problem I generally face over here is it seems all the attention is being paid to either New World or Classical Archaeology. There seems to be a dearth of anything related to the Old World outide the Roman, Greek, or Egytian references.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #27 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 1:16pm
 
Don't worry, it's the same here in the Old World too - just think that there have been only 2 archaeological researches about Middle Age in my Region, and I live in a Region that has been inhabited by (chronologically) Goths, Byzantines, Lombards, Arabs, Balkan people of various ethnic groups, Germans, French and so on.... plus we don't study the New World archaeology so well, but it's due to the lack of fundings given to our Universities  Angry
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #28 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 1:57pm
 
Hi Mauro,
Glad to make contact with you. I have got to tell you the lack of funding seems to be prevalent worldwide. The bulk of my studies are oriented towards New World Archaeology, and The Old World Archaeology is just skimmed over. I find this unacceptable since my primary interest is in the prehistory of Europe.

Getting back to slinging and helping Pete in his studies. This topic has really grabbed my interest as it seems to hit home...I am of British ancestry. I'd like to re-discover my ancestry and the way they survived. The attack and defense of the hillforts falls right in line with my background. With this in mind, I have taken on this project for very personal reasons.

I don't know if you have read too much about me, but I've been using slings for better than four decades now and have quite a bit of experience in how they function. Despite the fact I've not been formally "trained" in their use, I can definitely put a stone on target. What I want to do is accurately replicate slinging to gain a better understanding of what it must have been like to actually attack, or defend one of these hillforts.
Dave
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Re: Sling Defence of Iron Age Hillforts
Reply #29 - Jan 31st, 2012 at 5:02pm
 
kentuckythrower wrote on Jan 31st, 2012 at 1:57pm:
I've been using slings for better than four decades now and have quite a bit of experience in how they function. Despite the fact I've not been formally "trained" in their use, I can definitely put a stone on target.


As I've stated previously stated, very few of us have had any "formal" training in slinging; it's just not available. Consequently, it would be great if you could video yourself slinging and post on YT. Also it would be great to see photos of your sling, details of ammo weight, target size, etc.
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