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Peruvian Star Mace (Read 14029 times)
Rockman
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Peruvian Star Mace
Nov 13th, 2011 at 11:42pm
 
Hello, I thought Iīd share these. A friend was recently in Cuzco, after some I did a little research on the different stone maces that ancient peruvians used for their wars. So I asked if he could find a replica. After a day or so he says to me: The replicas are way overpriced, targeted at gullible tourists. He also told me that he saw few items of the sort: Most collectors are interested in colonial items, the fusion of the two cultures is what people want.

So he went to another location and found some other replicas, which were not historically accurate as far as I know, so scrap that. They do have some originals lying around.
He asks: What about those originals? 
They respond: People donīt come here to buy this type of items. Sometimes, they pop put in the field and we trade it for some nonsense. Every now and then, a persons buys something.
The message I got from all this is : If itīs not colonial, itīs not worthwhile.

Long story short, he arrives and comes with a couple of items. The first is the best mace he could find me for the budget. A little 5 pointed one.

The second is an interesting item, with an interesting story. It had been found on a potato field and the guy who found it, sold it to the shop owner, where it had been used as a chandelier for some 15 years. He gave it to my friend as a gift.

It is an unfinished star mace, this one has 6 points. You canīt tell from the picture, but if you turn it over, thereīs a crack in one of the edges. It was probably discarded.

The little mace head weights 120 grams exactly. The large piece is pretty heavy, probably a little over 3 kg. Iīll weight it properly as soon as I can. Both pieces are a type of granite.
 


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timann
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #1 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 1:18pm
 
That small one seems like a fine, agile mace head, the big one seem best suited for dropping on someones head Smiley
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #2 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 2:09pm
 
Perhaps the biggest one was intended to be a status-symbol - it was a common practice with many weapons in the Late Bronze - Iron Age here in Italy.
We have examples of axes used as votive or social status symbols since the Neolithic (which is common in Europe), and maces both used for war or simbolize regal power during the Middle Iron Age (a common practice in Italy and Balkans, Greece and Middle East at least).
Those are great objects, Bruno, but how much does it cost a replica, by chance?
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #3 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 2:11pm
 
Plus, could you take detailed pics of the unfinished hole?
I'd like to understand how did they practiced holes in granite - I know using a stone or bronze tool and sand, but since we in Italy have similar unfinished items (axe heads from the Copper Age, loom weights from the Neolithic, and so on), I'd like to compare them.
Greetings and thanks for what you'll be able to do,
Mauro.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 3:23pm
 
Mauro. go to Megatithics.com.  That is Larry Kinsallas' site.  He details making all sorts of things you will be very interested in.  Also, check out Paleoplanet.com, those sites should give you something to do for many rainy evenings.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 3:45pm
 
I knew paleoplanet - I'm also there even if I don't write that much - and am going to visit Kinsallas' site.
Winters can be very rainy in Italy, and I don't want to pass a boring one...  Grin
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Mauro.
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Rockman
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #6 - Nov 14th, 2011 at 7:08pm
 
I know I omitted some important details. As soon as I can, Iīll also look for my measuring tape and take more precise measurements. The replicas are S/.1000 local currency (370$), which is a lot, but maybe not for some big spending tourists. My mace was 55$ by comparison. They consider the originals to be worth much less and often left ignored, so I thought I could appreciate it.

As a status symbol, the stone pieces Iīve seen in the museums vary in size from tiny to large. I have both extremes of the size chart. I have some nice footage which I will upload soon of my visit to the museum, I made sure to get some good shots from the maces.

The one stone mace I saw at the museum which may be something like you say, for ceremonial purpose is about the same weight as the larger piece, but the points are longer ans slimmer. It weights 3kg the one at the museum, 10cm diameter approx, granite.

But for ceremonial purposes, they used maces of copper or bronze, since metal was a high status symbol. The regional leaders, or "Curacas" carried metal maces or axes and breastplates which could be a gold-copper, gold-silver or gold-silver-copper alloy. 

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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 4:37am
 
Bruno, this reminds me that one entire chapter of my thesis is about Peruvian metal-working, analyzing its technique and the symbolism behid that.
If you're interested, I'm going to translate vaste sections of my thesis and make them downloadabe at academia.org - the entire translation job will begin in the next days, I'll tell you when it's done.

370$ for a replica are WAAAAY too much, how much should I sell my iron ones?! You've done well by buying an original, at least it will not leave your Country with some tourist.

It appears that our cultures may have had different habits about cerimonies - little ones, though. It also seem possible that maces and axes have been status symbol both in your and my country, which sound like an important clue to begin an anthropological analysis with!

Let me know if you're interested in the chapter about Andean metalworking  Wink
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Mauro.
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #8 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 6:23am
 
damn even I'd have problems wielding a mace with  a 3kg head.

Could the larger maces have been for ceremonial purposes or for executing prisoners ?
Would make a lot more sense.

Somewhere around a 1 kg would be the ideal weight for a battle mace.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #9 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 8:07am
 
Here're the measures of war maces used by Piceni in the Middle Iron Age (6th to 5th Century b.C.):

Campovalano, tomb no. 69: iron, 5,5 centimeters high, 3,8 cent. diameter;
Campovalano, tomb no. 69: iron, 4,3 cent. high, 3,9 cent. diameter;
Campovalano, tomb no. 135: iron, 3,8 cent. high, 5,5 cent. diameter;
S. Egidio alla Vibrata, tomb no. 1: iron, 4,2 cent. diameter;
Matelica, tomb no. 1: limestone, 4,8 cent. high, 4,1 cent. diameter.

And there are two scepters found in Matelica, tomb no. 1.
These two scepters were entirely made of wood, so that only bronze decorations remain.
These decorations allow us to suppose the following measures:

overall length: 35 centimeters;
maximum diameter of the top sphere: 5,7 cent.
maximum length of the sphere decorations: 5,8 cent (they're in palm shape).

These decorations had a lower bronze band thar is 4,5 cent. high; smaller bands (0,6 cent. high) were around the lower end of the sceptre.

Hope it helps!
Greetings,
Mauro.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #10 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 12:51pm
 

Would you be able to find out the approximate weight of the iron maces?
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #11 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 12:57pm
 
Unfortunately, there're no indication about that, but I was planning to make the replica of one of those soon or later - just wait a few days and I will forge again  Wink
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Mauro.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #12 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 1:10pm
 
OK, that sounds good.

I made a stone ax that weighs just under 5 pounds (slightly over 2kg), it definatly takes both hands to chop down a tree and it is too heavy to be used in combat unless it was all you had.  I think the smaller stone mace heads were a lot more effective than you would think, especially if you were hitting bare skin or just a shirt.  It probably would not be effective against any type of armor, especially the European plate.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #13 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 2:28pm
 
I totally agree with your idea of swift combat, a bit lesser with the idea that maces would not be effective against plate armor.
Spherical maces surely would not do so much damage, but think that just when Europeans developed plate armors, weapon makers begun to change mace heads' shapes: from morning star, to flanged maces, to warhammers.
These were specifically designed to cause the maximum damage against plate armors - otherwise, if they were intended to be used against less effective armors, I think they would have maintained that spherical shape, that was successfully been in use for centuries.

This, at least, is what some people think, but this's an interesting debate and I'd really like to read different opinions.
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Mauro.
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Mauro Fiorentini
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Re: Peruvian Star Mace
Reply #14 - Nov 15th, 2011 at 2:32pm
 
By the way, why don't you show us your stone axe?
I'm really curious!

You know, I've passed years convicted that ancient weapons were too small, or light, to be of some use in combat.
But I'm changing my mind since I begun forging replicas: having never been involved in a fight during which ancient weapons are used, I don't know how they would behave - perhaps that a single blow was enough to make an opponent harmless, or perhaps... who knows?
Re-enacting ancient fights would be of some use!  Wink
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Mauro.
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