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Long range competition (Read 8607 times)
David Morningstar
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Long range competition
Nov 2nd, 2011 at 3:04pm
 
I like the idea of lakes. Beaches only exist at the coast so you are stuck if you are inland. Lakes are pretty much everywhere.

A pair of ropes with floats along their length could create a shooting lane with scoring boxes between the floats, like a ladder. Trying to measure exact distances would take too long and be inaccurate. Scoring zones give the immediate feedback that makes it fun.
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jlasud
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #1 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 3:35pm
 
Yes,Yureks idea of scoring boxes is very easy and efficient.Measuring 20-30-50 peoples distances would take way too long and boring.Also i would vote on a lake shooting rather than beach slinging with hidden observer judges looking for dust puffs. On a still lake a single observer judge armed with a binocle,maybe placed higher than the water level could do the job.Also placing 20 buoys or so and some ropes wouldn't be a big deal,i think.
IMO the first score box should start at least 100m and up to 300m or even more.
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Rat Man
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #2 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 4:08pm
 
Yes, an excellent idea.  That would work quite well.
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Dilyan Ganev
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #3 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 4:20pm
 
Great idea...I start to miss my hometown
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David Morningstar
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #4 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 4:56pm
 
Ownership of the lake is something that would need to be established, you wouldn't want the local canoe club paddling up and taking offense that you have roped off 500 metres of lake and turned it into a free fire zone  Grin
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Dan
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #5 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 8:32am
 
I have slung at the regular public parks with lakes here no problem, just sling safely and not straght towards any paddlers. Though this park (Pinchot) is seldom crowded I am not sure if it's the same case where you are though.
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I was pretty good at slinging like 10 years ago.
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 8:57am
 
the main problem - as with any distance shoot measuring. Is perspective.
The slinger end has no real idea where the shot landed

You'll need either a long narrow lake so that observers can be at the sides to spot the impacts. or some idiot in a boat.

Now given that I've done the distance measuring in a big dusty field. What you do is watch the slinger, they sling and then (as they can see the missile and you can not ) point which direction the missile is going - you then side step in the other direction and watch for the impact.

It's quite safe unless the signals get mixed up and you end up with a lead glande hitting about 6 feet directly in front of you Smiley

Now on a lake the idiot in the boat has no chance of getting out of the way. Which is why you need an idiot  Wink

So onshore observers would be a lot more sensible.

The ideal situation would be an island in the centre of a fairly wide river with observers stationed along the bank.

An anchored platform would probably be just as effective and these can be hired for a small cost quite easily. (one of my clients has a business doing just this so I know a little bit about it).

But yeah definitely like the idea Smiley
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #7 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 9:35am
 
I think the best solution for measuring distance impacts on water is to make a ladder shaped target out of nylon rope and buoys with an anchor on one end. Attach the sides of the "ladder" to shore and paddle out in a boat dragging the ladder out behind you. Once the "ladder" is stretched out drop the ladder's anchor and paddle back to shore. Then, all you have to do is mark which rungs of the ladder the shot landed between.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #8 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 9:36am
 
you still need side on observers to spot the actual impact sites.

but - yep it's probably easier than doing it on land.
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David Morningstar
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #9 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 11:36am
 
Up high also works, something like a seat on top of a step ladder might be enough?
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #10 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 3:23pm
 
The subject seems complicated of course and is normal that Mateu, from the point of view of the rigor that must have a federation in the registry of data, puts difficulties.

I think that a distance competition have not be conected to one of accuracy by setting up a sort of targets of distances, although it makes the measurement easier. The reach must be measured in precise terms, in meters at least. A federation must register the reaches of absolute way. A meter more is sufficient to establish a new record without ambiguity. On the other hand, the throwing sports like javelin, weight or disc, measure the distances according to the followed trajectory, that can be included in a relatively ample sector, of about 30 degrees or more. If we measure by horizontal references, reaches with considerable real differences could be equal. In the case of the sling, supposing a launching of 115 meters with angle of 30 degrees, if we measured it by horizontal references would give a distance of 100 meters, 15 meters less than the real reach. For that reason it is necessary to go to direct measures to establish records without ambiguity. Another solution would be to establish a very narrow path of landing, invalidating the impacts that landed outside it, but then we would have a mixed competition of accuracy  and distance. Laser telemeter can be used but it is necessary to identify with clarity the impact and then place on it a screen where the laser is reflected, and evidently must have judges in the landing sector (another problem for Mateu). In order to identify the impacts it would be necessary to reject the small projectiles, setting up a inferior limit in the weight, having to renounce to those spectacular reaches with projectiles of 30 or 40 grams. The ideal to facilitate the impact identification would be to use the Balearic projectile par excellence, of one mine (one pound approx.) Grin, that besides producing a visible impact on sand, for example, it would reduce the space to be observed by the judges. Naturally this would leave outside competition many of us. In any case, the distance competition is much more sensible to the weight that the one of accuracy and for that reason it would have to standardize (although we don´t like it) the weight of the projectile. Perhaps a weight of 250 grams could be adapted to satisfy all the requirements said.
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2011 at 12:39pm by Hondero »  

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Re: Long range competition
Reply #11 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 3:37pm
 
In the past i wondered how the Guiness officials measured the sling distance records.Their technique would be too slow for a competition with numerous participants though.
Slinging big stones would ease up the judges work greatly,but would take away the extreme ranges possible to reach with light stones.Although there was a record with around 300m with a ~300g stone in the past.
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Yurek
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #12 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 5:20pm
 
Hondero I agree but the problem is that exact measuring of every shot make distance competition so difficult to organize that as a result, they are not organized at all. Simplicity should be the key. I think that fighting for a record/number and range competitions intended to separate the best range slingers don't have to be the same. When you are observing 2 or 3 slingers slinging into a lake, you can easy say who of them has the best ability to throw far in this moment, with no measurements. However any official competitions require some permanent rules and numbers to classify of competitors. I think the range zones could be a good compromise.

Here is an loose introductory vision just for discussion.

1. Range zones.

...

The 50 m is the minimum for the distance, It could be a bit wider.

2. Number of shots.

Just a one session. Each of competitors slings until he gets 5 valid throws, but not more than in 10 tries. The valid throw is when the stone lands into between the blue lines. This is a bit complicated but it reduces considerably the matter of accuracy mentioned by Hondero.


3. Scoring

The each shot is scored depending on what zone was hit by the stone

Not valid one - not taken into account
>  75 m -  75 points
> 100 m - 100 points
> 125 m - 125 points
...

From the all valid shots just three the best ones are taken into account. That is in order to reduce a influence of gusts of wind, "buzzing shots" and others. Then the arithmetic mean is calculated.
For example, if someone got results: 150, 175, 125, 150, 175, his final result will be:

(150 + 175 + 175)/3 = 167 points

When the best result have a few competitors, the winner is the one who have the longest shot. For example:

Competitor 1 (175 + 175 + 175)/3 = 175 points
Competitor 2 (150 + 175 + 200)/3 = 175 points    <- the winner

When their results of each shot are the same, some additional throws will be necessary to determine the final result. They could be measured exactly. The same with regard to the 2th and 3th location.


4. Stones

Just natural ones, minimum 60 grams. No the upper limit.

5 Possible places

- Dry dusty field. No problem to see the impacts (explosions of dust), even from the slinger's position - I know it from my experience. It is easy and cheap to mark the slinging range and zones. All what is needed are a few hundred metres of cheap bright "police like" tape and two dozen of cheap or free sticks and measuring tape. Maybe a compass would be helpful to set the right angles.  However raining would be a big problem.

- Sandy beach. A beautiful place for such competitions. The same easy way of marking the range like above. However it is necessary to try how well the impacts are visible for side judges.

- Concrete runway (?)

- Water. I think it is the nicest place. But in my opinion marking the range would be much more complicated and expensive. You will need boats, lots of buoys, ropes with floats (like in a seeming pool), a good laser range finder, weights, ropes. There will be problem to keep that all stuff in exact positions. Besides the splashes will be only visible when the surface of the water is calm.


6. Side judges. Two or three convicts or suicides Cheesy  The simplest and good enough protection for them is the distance of 80 - 100 m from the side line. If there is not enough room they must stand behind covers or on a cliff. The covers might be natural or man-made, maybe nets would be enough.


7. Communication. Walkie-talkie, flags, loudspeaker... maybe "naked voice"?

Please give your opinions and propositions.


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Re: Long range competition
Reply #13 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 6:19pm
 
I can usually see where my projectile impacts on the water, and its path through the air, but not accurately enough to measure the distance.
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Re: Long range competition
Reply #14 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 7:00pm
 
Yurek wrote on Nov 4th, 2011 at 5:20pm:
Hondero I agree but the problem is that exact measuring of every shot make distance competition so difficult to organize that as a result, they are not organized at all.



It is not necessary to measure each shot, it would be enough to nail a flag in the impact and to move it towards the following one if it is longer. Finally the best shot of each slinger is only measured. In the case the competition went for selecting the best distance slinger and not to break a record, your proposal seems good, although generally each slinger would always hit in the same sector. And to be proper, the sectors would have to draw up with arcs, like in the javelin competitions. As far as the lateral judges, it does not seem complicated, since it would be very easy to have a small metallic mesh of protection for them, and so they could be observant of first row, although sometimes a stone may hit in the mesh  Grin
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