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World Standards of Slinging (Read 29720 times)
Camo-sling
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #105 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 2:52am
 
Don't ask hotels for old carpets. Nuff' said.
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Donnerschlag
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #106 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 2:27am
 
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 2:52am:
Don't ask hotels for old carpets. Nuff' said.

Not even hotels that charge by the hour?
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Camo-sling
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #107 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 4:24am
 
Donnerschlag wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 2:27am:
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 2:52am:
Don't ask hotels for old carpets. Nuff' said.

Not even hotels that charge by the hour?


Bring a UV light and expect the worst!
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Donnerschlag
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #108 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 3:00pm
 
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 4:24am:
Donnerschlag wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 2:27am:
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 2:52am:
Don't ask hotels for old carpets. Nuff' said.

Not even hotels that charge by the hour?


Bring a UV light and expect the worst!

But that might bring it to life  Sad
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #109 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 5:40pm
 
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 4:24am:
Donnerschlag wrote on Mar 13th, 2013 at 2:27am:
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 11th, 2013 at 2:52am:
Don't ask hotels for old carpets. Nuff' said.

Not even hotels that charge by the hour?


Bring a UV light and expect the worst!

Shocked Shocked whistle
i will act like I never understood this post....
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #110 - Mar 18th, 2013 at 3:50am
 
  Yes, well, (Putting Mod hat on) it might be best if we all pretend we don't know what we're talking about.  I don't think any lines have been crossed yet, so let's keep it that way Ladies and Gentlemen, and stay family friendly!

   Now, onward and forward...

   I've read over all the posts in this thread and have come to a couple of conclusions...  

   1.   There (quite obviously) seem to be a few seperate factions.  Can't we all just agree to disagree? No?  LOL.  Alright fine then.  Maybe we can make some progress by categorizing them.  Here's the list I have currently been able to discern.
       
             A.   Anti-Sportsmen:  These are the Slingers who embrace the sling as a hobby or an art form and can't stomach the idea of anything as yucky as rules touching them.  If this is you, then this is not the thread for you.  The whole purpose of this particular forum (and thread) is to determine the particulars of slinging as a sport.  There's nothing wrong with disliking the concept, but arguing against it only confounds the issue for those Slingers who do like the idea.  Just remember that nobody here is trying to take away your rights to sling whatever, whenever, wherever and however.

              B.   Free-Form Sportsmen:  These are the Slingers that like (or at least tolerate) the idea of Slinging as a Sport, but only if there are very few (or even no) rules and/or standards.  Well, I understand this.  I used to do quite a bit of “sword fighting” with (what we called) “Boffers”.  These were PVC Pipe covered with foam insulation, wrapped in duct tape.  We had very few rules for these bouts.  It was major big fun, let me tell you.  I used samurai sword fighting techniques (with a bit of Jedi thrown in), and another friend of mine liked renaissance style fencing.  Like I said, mucho fun-o.  
However, a world-wide recognized sport it could never be.  When people are competing for more than “the fun of it”, rules that encourage (or even force) fair-play are mandatory.  Let’s face it.  People cheat.  They often do whatever they must to win.  A Boffer filled with concrete would probably win the bout pretty quickly!

              C.   Pro-Standarizers:  These are Slingers that are in agreement with the idea of making everybody use the same stuff, the same way, the same where.  I gotta say that I understand this as well for the very reasons I mentioned already.  However, there is something to be said for creativity and a certain amount of fluidity even in a competition sport.  Watching American Football for me is an exhausting mental exercise that usually doesn’t really seem worth it.  Why?  Because it is super over regulated.  I challenge someone to find an NFL game that lasts even 5 minutes without a penalty flag being thrown.  If you do, I’ll bet you that it was from at least 30 years ago.  I fully understand the reasons for the rules.  It’s because people keep stepping on the Spirit of the Game in order to WIN.  So, rules are applied in order to maintain the Spirit of the game, which in turn kills it.  Pretty soon you have a game that goes from “Try to get past the other team with the ball by outsmarting or outplaying them” to “Try to think of ways to get around the exhaustive rules and still win.”  And Fun goes out the window.  
     
            D.   Freeform Standardizers:  Yeah, I know.  It’s an oxymoron.  But, I gotta say that this is the category that yours truly falls into.  At least in relation to accuracy competition.  These are the Slingers that believe in something between B and C.  We need some rules to, in fact, make it a competition and something that can be recognized as an actual sport, without completely sacrificing our personal creativity and preferences.  I quite like RatMan’s bowling analogies.  Very few and simple standards, and still a great game for competition.  Nobody says after losing a bowling match, “Well, he only won because he’s using a shallow fingertip, thumb hole-less, 9 ½ pound, fluorescent pink ball that he only throws straight.”  Why not?  Because it’s ridiculous, that’s why.  The object of the game is to knock down the pins.  Period.  Don’t step over the foul line, use a ball that you can lift, and knock down all the pins.  What else is there?

     2.    We need to make some Headway.  This is my second conclusion.  I suspect that we could probably argue about all this stuff until the second coming and just let the Lord settle things, or we could get down to brass tacks.  I mean, this particular thread started on October 9th 2011 at 8:34am.  Woah Nelly!  And how many other threads are there like this one?  Five?  Seven?  A Dozen?  (C_A, please feel free to NOT answer this very rhetorical question..)  I shudder to think of it.

     3.    It will take time and a bunch of polls. Even if we get motivated and excited about it, it will take time to determine the particulars of this.  I will start the ball rolling with a new thread and poll starting with accuracy standards for the purpose of competition.  I will start with the current Accuracy Standards listed within the Ranking System and we can fine tune from there.

Slingers!   Nothing will be decided until decisions are made!  Let’s get busy!
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« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2013 at 2:06am by LightSlinger »  

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Camo-sling
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #111 - Mar 19th, 2013 at 1:10am
 
Just having some fun with the older posts, will delete them if asked.

LightSlinger, those categories are pretty accurate. You summed up every viewpoint very well - especially the anti-sportsmen category. As you said, if you are against any form of rules, the sport isn't for you but the hobby definitely is.

It's a great idea to compile all our decisions and viewpoints through the use of polls. That will consolidate our rule system. We should leave the polls open for a set amount of time, for example 3-6 months before a definite opinion is found. I will work on putting together a document or thread which confirms our decisions and rules. If for any reason someone wants to appeal the rules in the future they may make a thread or we can set up a period where we all review the rules after we have tested them for a good amount of time.

Each rule we make should leave room for common sense or allow the ability of the judges to make an executive decision based on fairness and safety. For example, as said by Stephen, a newcomer using a 20ft sling in pirouette style should be over ruled as restricted for safety reasons.

If any slinger wants to compete in a standardized slinging competition they may either follow Balearic leagues or create a league for themselves. The federation we are creating should be the consensus of the community to reach majority decisions. The consensus could potentially suit you in some ways and contradict your views in others. That being said, we must leave time for the community to voice their opinions until a clear shared viewpoint is found.
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LightSlinger
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #112 - Mar 19th, 2013 at 1:30am
 
Camo-sling wrote on Mar 19th, 2013 at 1:10am:
Just having some fun with the older posts, will delete them if asked.

LightSlinger, those categories are pretty accurate. You summed up every viewpoint very well - especially the anti-sportsmen category. As you said, if you are against any form of rules, the sport isn't for you but the hobby definitely is.

It's a great idea to compile all our decisions and viewpoints through the use of polls. That will consolidate our rule system. We should leave the polls open for a set amount of time, for example 3-6 months before a definite opinion is found. I will work on putting together a document or thread which confirms our decisions and rules. If for any reason someone wants to appeal the rules in the future they may make a thread or we can set up a period where we all review the rules after we have tested them for a good amount of time.

Each rule we make should leave room for common sense or allow the ability of the judges to make an executive decision based on fairness and safety. For example, as said by Stephen, a newcomer using a 20ft sling in pirouette style should be over ruled as restricted for safety reasons.

If any slinger wants to compete in a standardized slinging competition they may either follow Balearic leagues or create a league for themselves. The federation we are creating should be the consensus of the community to reach majority decisions. The consensus could potentially suit you in some ways and contradict your views in others. That being said, we must leave time for the community to voice their opinions until a clear shared viewpoint is found.


Not a problem.  If I thought they were too over the top, I'd delete em myself!  LOL.   I just don't want to have to explain that kind of humor to my 12 year old daughter...     Embarrassed 

Yep, I like the polls.  I dunno if we need to leave em open for quite that long, but I think maybe that I will adopt Masia's technique.  When the poll drifts down and out of sight, we'll call it good..

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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #113 - Mar 21st, 2013 at 11:55am
 
Nice summation ls Thumbs Up
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #114 - Mar 22nd, 2013 at 5:54pm
 
Whipartist wrote on Oct 9th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
I totally agree with Thunder Chief.  The most popular martial arts competition is MMA, not Tae Kwon Do or Boxing.  The reason is that MMA is more inclusive and fits better with the martial spirit, which is to win fights.   

I believe slinging competition should avoid becoming too much of a standardized sport which detracts from the interest in the sling as a primative weapon by making it into a mere golf club.

Slings and ammo can't be standardize any more than you can standardize sling technique.  People are all different.  In sports that involve the use of weapons, the varying and diverse technology of the weapons themselves is always part of the sport.  Let's face it, slings will never be anything more than stone age technology, even if we start using teflon coated cradles! 

Compare slinging to archery.  Not every shooter shoots the same exact bow or length or weight of arrow for that matter.  They choose their weapons for the fit they have with their body.  The point is hitting the standardized target to acquire maximum points. 

If slings and ammo become standardized, many expert slingers worldwide would be excluded from participation.  Standardizing is only helpful when creating a sport out of nothing, such as baseball or basketball.  When taking a weapon that is embedded in culture and history and making it into a sport, standardization of the weapon itself must be avoided at all costs.  What if the standardized sling or ammo is not ideal for many would be participants?  I for instance, simply couldn't compete with balearic weight ammo.  I don't mind competing against those who use it.  My ammo is around 1.5-2.5oz but travels at higher velocity then the average Balearic slingers seem to use.  I say as long as you can put that stone on that target with good force, you've got the point. 

Also, using a 100" sling offers no more advantage to a slinger in a competition then a 5" sling does.  It's not as if it reaches further out to the target before release.  The release is always behind the throwing line with any length sling since release is perpendicular to the target.  Let there be freedom with sling length, ammo weight, etc....   

There should be no restrictions upon technique either.  That is not helpful.  All styles should be allowed without any restrictions.  This creates a culture in which the understanding of the sling increases world wide.  If the slingers who use Figure 8's win all the competitions, it won't be long until most slingers try to emulate that technique and continue to perfect it.  This is good as a way to rediscover history and to rediscover this weapon.

So in the interest of preserving the sling as a primative weapon and minimal standardizaton, I believe the Balearic point system and target is good to keep since it's already been in use for a long time.

If the targets, point system, etc, were to be changed I'd suggest two potential changes.

One:  I believe the sling is capable of better than Diana level accuracy and so I believe a small concentration point should be put in the center of the target to reward those capable of hitting it.  The point value for such a hit should be very high.  I suggest a head sized circle or smaller.

Two: In the spirit of the sling as a weapon, I believe the Balearic target should possibly be changed to be made of at least one two two sheets of good cardboard or other uniform penetrable material.  A shot which does not penetrate through the cardboard and fly or fall out the back side of the target, does not count as a point because it did not contain enough power.  The target would of course have to be rotated for every round if this was done. There may be other creative ways to accomplish the same goals, such as energy meters or something like that. 

In Australia in target competitions for whip cracking, they use styrofoam cups.  If the cups aren't cut sliced by the whip, the points are reduced, even if the cup is hit or broken. 

I believe throwing distances should include a round at 40 meters or more as well as shorter distances.  Keeping ranges overly short for all rounds ignores the potential for the longer ranges slings are capable of and it rewards those who put inadequate power into their technique.   

I am interested in the sling as the primative weapon it is.  Accuracy and power at range were the goals of our ancestors and they should be our goals as well. 

I do believe ammo can be standardized in quality if a selection of weights are used.  But I believe the best would be to just keep using well selected stones.

I am opposed to uses of non-weaponized ammo of any weight, just as I wouldn't want to participate in an archery competition that used suction cups on the tips of the arrows.  Slings are primative weapons in which the potentials are as of yet unknown.  Let's not choke out the possibility that free and open competitions might provide to someone who's very skilled the opportunity to influence the future of slinging through the success of their chosen combination of technique, sling and ammo. 

Anyway, my two cents.



I don't have enough time to read this whole thread, but I've always been in agreement with Whip Artist on sling accuracy.  The only thing I think might not be needed would be the cardboard penetration part.  I would also up the distance to 50 meters.  I sling from 30-40 meters on targets far smaller than the Diana.  It's only a matter of time when more people get interested in slinging that 30- 40 meters on 2 liter bottles will be the norm, not the exception...  We need to be forward-thinking here IMO. 

As far as standardization, the only need to standardize in slinging is if there was new technology created in slinging that offered a significant advantage to accuracy.  Otherwise it is overly stifling and exclusionary, and for what purpose?  In what way are we making it more fair by excluding anyone who doesn't want to sling in the way defined by someone else? To borrow a phrase from (I believe) Masi, the better you get at slinging, the more of a sling snob you become.  In other words you have certain ways of doing things that have naturally evolved because they work for you.  And the longer you have been slinging the more particular you will likely be on your gear and style.  That is how it should be.  Try and force people to change and not only do you do a big disservice to the community as a whole but you will almost certainly inspire the creation of a separate competition that will not be so stifling and will almost certainly end up putting yours out of business.

Let it be about hitting a standardized target with a loosely defined sling (anything goes except mechanical implements?)  and any ammo that the person chooses to use. If someone chooses to use tennis balls when everyone else is using stones or lead, that is their choice. They will probably lose, especially at longer distances, but that's their choice.
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #115 - Mar 24th, 2013 at 5:20am
 
"Sling Snob"... LMAO  I love it.. Grin
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #116 - Apr 4th, 2013 at 1:18pm
 
So where are we with this?Is there a newer and more pertinent thread someone could direct me to? I have been out of the loop.

  Brett
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #117 - May 3rd, 2013 at 9:55pm
 
From the sound of crickets on this whole board I would say,,,,,,,doesn't matter?

Brett
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Camo-sling
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Re: World Standards of Slinging
Reply #118 - May 4th, 2013 at 4:50am
 
Jax,

Nothing has really been continued from this thread except for two or three polls confirming the decisions sling type, length and technique will not be standardized. Although it is a consensus that they will be regulated by common sense to increase safety. For example, not letting a newbie aim for a target at 10 meters using a 5 meter sling and pirouette style.
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