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Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! (Read 5714 times)

Bill Skinner Slinging.org Moderator Forum Moderator Slinging Rocks! Posts: 1347	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #45 - Sep 6^th, 2011, 9:24pm Thank you for the pictures. What is your crucible made of? Bill
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Mauro Fiorentini Slinging.org Moderator Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3072 Gender:	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #46 - Sep 7^th, 2011, 7:18am The crucible is made of clay, mixed with fine sand and organic materials, such as hair and subtle straw fragments. It's the same mixture of my nozzle, that begun to vitrify only above 1536C: Greetings, Mauro.
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Bill Skinner Slinging.org Moderator Forum Moderator Slinging Rocks! Posts: 1347	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #47 - Sep 7^th, 2011, 3:45pm My clay may work then, it has organic material in it and I have fine sand from a near by creek. Bill
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greencheapsk8 Descens Just in it for the fire! Posts: 235 Gender:	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #48 - Sep 8^th, 2011, 2:49am Quote from Bill Skinner on Sep 7^th, 2011, 3:45pm: My clay may work then, it has organic material in it and I have fine sand from a near by creek. Bill Well some clay is good, some clay is bad, but the easiest way to find out is to put it to the test!
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Mauro Fiorentini Slinging.org Moderator Forge your future with the hammer of your mind! Posts: 3072 Gender:	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #49 - Sep 8^th, 2011, 6:34am Amen to that! We used many types of clay, and the best one was from a creek. The 2nd best one came from a cliff, it was one of the geological layers. Good luck and keep us informed! Mauro.
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Bill Skinner

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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #50 - Sep 9^th, 2011, 9:53pm

I found a clay? sandstone? some sort of rock that will fire and doesn't crack when it is heated to glowing so I may have something suitable for a mold. A friend said it is some type of silt stone made of volcanic ash. I will definately have to make sure it is dry before I pour hot metal on it, water and molten metal are a really bad combination. It carves about like soap but it is not soap stone. Bill

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greencheapsk8 Descens Just in it for the fire! Posts: 235 Gender:	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #51 - Sep 10^th, 2011, 2:48am Is it a sort of soft white rock, with lots of air pockets? That would be pumice, brilliant for mold making!
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Bill Skinner Slinging.org Moderator Forum Moderator Slinging Rocks! Posts: 1347	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #52 - Sep 10^th, 2011, 9:44pm I think it may be a type of pumic but it has no air pockets. I am going to try carving a hole in a chunk, cooking it in a kiln and then pouring some lead in it. We will see what happens. Bill
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Mauro Fiorentini

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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #53 - Apr 11^th, 2012, 8:08am

Now that the winter has gone and I have some free morning, I took my bellows again and begun working on a short sword.
I already forged something during winter, but using the modern forge, so it's nothing of interest here.

By the way, here're some pics of the forging:

a top view of the whole forging system;

details of the forging pit;

heating the tang;

how the sword looks like after the first 1 hour and a half of work.

I used the broken piece of a plow, straightening it and cutting away some metal with the chisel to obtain a tang.
Next time I'll forge (rain comes and go) I'll curve the tang with a degree of about 45°, curve the sword a bit on the other side, and make a small guard.
Then to practice 3 holes for the handle and, at last, I'll flatten the edge, which I'll sharp later with sandstone.
I used about 3 kilos of vegetal coal (chestnut, oak and olive).
The bellows has been damaged for the first time in 2 years: it has a very tiny hole caused by some flying hot splinter, but it worked without problems, allowing me to easily work with this hard steel (it produced white short sparks when I tried to saw it: it means that it's a good steel).
Quenching is still far in time but I have some new techniques in mind, I'll report them here

The day before I begun forging this sword, I helped a friend in casting a bronze axe and 2 bronze chisels using this forging pit and our new couple of bellows (one of which he managed to break, damned be him).
Greetings,
Mauro.

EDIT: note the couple of anvils, I needed another one to easily unbend the sword.

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jlasud Interfector Viris Spurii Programming stones Posts: 1659 Gender:	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #54 - Apr 11^th, 2012, 3:27pm Good to see that Mauro! do you use one bellow? also do you use one bellow for melting bronze? How much volume does it have? 10L,15L,20L?
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Atlatlista Ex Member	Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS! Reply #55 - Apr 11^th, 2012, 4:35pm Your forge is beautiful and inspiring. I really need to stop being lazy and get to work on those copper axes.
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Mauro Fiorentini

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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #56 - Apr 11^th, 2012, 6:48pm

Hola jlasud!!
Now that's an interesting question, about the bellows volume, and I'm proud to announce you that I just recently determined that.
Know that I have 4 bellows in all:

# 1: made of leather, square shape, 60 x 60 centimeters, the pipe has a diameter of 2 centimeters;
# 2: made of wood and leather, Medieval shape, about 70 x 30 x 30 centimeters, the pipe (which I'm always changing looking for the best one) has a diameter of 3 centimeters;
# 3, 4: made of leather, rectangular shape, 30 x 70 centimeters, pipes has diameters of 2,5 centimeters.

NOW:

# 1 generates a volume of about 0,46 square meters of air;
# 2 work in progress;
# 3, 4 generates a volume of about 0,40 square meters.

Number 1 is the most powerful of them all, and it is the one I use the most.
It allowed me to melt any metal, even iron, which melts at about 1530° C (2786 F).
By the way, using # 3 and 4 made melting bronze quicker, because they work in couple and generate a constant flux of air.

But this means a completely different metal working philosophy: while I can forge iron on my own, I am forced to work with at least another guy to melt bronze: in fact, if I am behind the bellows I can't see what's going on in the pit, and even if I look at how the flames change their colors, I will never reach the pit in time before the melted bronze hardens again inside the crucible.
More, since I am a very reserved person, I fit perfectly with the Do It Yourself philosophy of iron forging

Greetings,
Mauro.

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jlasud

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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #57 - Apr 13^th, 2012, 12:54am

Thanks for the answer Mauro! I just made a huge bellow out of calf skin,i know it's too thick,but it the one thing i could get my hands on and i hope it will soften somewhat with use.It measures 62X65 cm and i plan to use it in solo with two hands.
Also since i already made one test with a small bellow,i observed that 2 people are quite a must for casting bronze.
By the way do you know of any method to get the hair off the skin,besides cutting it? I know the lime in water is used for raw leather but mine is already processed and still has the hair.Shaping does not work and burning would change the leathers properties.

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Mauro Fiorentini

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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #58 - Apr 13^th, 2012, 7:40am

Hallo jla, I deleted your double post Wink

All my bellows are made of calf skin, which will be harder to manipulate for the first times, but once you pump a hundred of times it will become more soft, and grant you a long life thanks to the skin's thickness. So don't worry about that!
About removing the hair, I know of a process which would be a bit long, but should work fine on raw leather: put some pork grease on the hair, spread it with a knife and then remove it after a bout ten minutes, scratching it with the knife.
It's like leaving the bark off a piece of wood; just a tip, do it gently because you'll always have time to try again, while if you waste your skin for having been too rough you'll have to do much more work.
Where did you get the leather? I use shoemaker's, they give it to me for free, because it has scratches that makes it useless for shoe making.
Greetings,
Mauro.

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Mauro Fiorentini

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Forge your future
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Re: Ironsmithing in the 8th Century b.C. - W/PICS!
Reply #59 - Sep 13^th, 2012, 9:13pm

Hallo people,
I resumed this post because I didn't see a reason to open a new one.

If you're interested to see how do I quench a blade, check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkluVy69Rh4

And here, a sligthly longer explanation: http://etadelferro.forumfree.it/?t=63148705
Greetings,
Mauro.

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