Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy. (Read 10523 times)
xxkid123
Past Moderator
*
Offline


Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel

Posts: 4807
new to california
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #15 - Aug 6th, 2010 at 9:20pm
 
Morphy wrote on Aug 6th, 2010 at 9:05pm:
Just goes to show how individualistic this sport is Paleo. For me, If I'm trying the side arm throw you use in your video I like a sling about the size your using. Which would be on the shorter end for me. I like a longer one for figure-8.  

I have a pet theory that longer slings could be easier for accuracy then shorter ones within reason.  If you think about the split-second timing it requires to release a stone so that it actually hits a small target a twenty yards, and then consider that a longer sling is traveling a longer arc of circle then a shorter one, then if both are swinging at approximately the same speed the longer sling will take more time to travel through that short window of opportunity for a perfect shot then a really short one.

Anyone feel free to shoot holes in this theory as it's just a theory.   And I can't prove it one way or the other. I think about it like a small gear and a big gear. The small gear might do many revolutions in the same time that a large gear does one even if the base rpm is the same.

Anyone see where I'm going with this, or is this rubbish?  Cheesy


i see where your going, but i don't think that this window of opportunity's time will have increased.
Back to top
 

There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on.
xxkid123 tanma101  
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Past Moderator
*
Offline


Joined Nov. 1, 2006  Luke
14:14

Posts: 3265
Melbourne, Australia
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #16 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 2:27am
 
Morphy wrote on Aug 6th, 2010 at 9:05pm:
Just goes to show how individualistic this sport is Paleo. For me, If I'm trying the side arm throw you use in your video I like a sling about the size your using. Which would be on the shorter end for me. I like a longer one for figure-8.  

I have a pet theory that longer slings could be easier for accuracy then shorter ones within reason.  If you think about the split-second timing it requires to release a stone so that it actually hits a small target a twenty yards, and then consider that a longer sling is traveling a longer arc of circle then a shorter one, then if both are swinging at approximately the same speed the longer sling will take more time to travel through that short window of opportunity for a perfect shot then a really short one.

Anyone feel free to shoot holes in this theory as it's just a theory.   And I can't prove it one way or the other. I think about it like a small gear and a big gear. The small gear might do many revolutions in the same time that a large gear does one even if the base rpm is the same.

Anyone see where I'm going with this, or is this rubbish?  Cheesy


The scenario you propose is based on the notion that the sling rotates around the slinger's throwing hand. However the pouch's motion is a compound comprised of the sling's rotation and the actual sweep of the arm. This means that the true radius of rotation of the pouch is in fact much larger than the sling's actual length at the time of release. In other words, it ain't quite so simple as it seems.

Nor is the true centre of rotation fixed. During windup the slinger may merely twirl the sling with a slight wrist motion but for the final releas he moves his hand rapidly forward. A further complication is the fact that the sling is not just an extension in line with the slinger's arm but trails significantly behind it. This "trail angle" as I call it varies all the time during an actual throw and is affected by just about everything, ie air drag, sling and projectile mass, the path of the slinger's hand and how quickly the sling is accelerated. In theory the trail angle should be kept as small as possible but in practise this is virtually impossible to do. The "timing and feel" of slinging that all slingers intuitively know about is really about keeping this angle at an optimum level and accelerating the pouch to maximum speed. Rapid acceleration and a small radius of movement drastically increases the trail angle which causes the sling to "close in" or rotate on a smaller effective radius. So now a nominally long sling is actually rotating on a smaller true radius than a slightly shorter one being used more efficiently, causing diminished speed and decreased accuracy.

Sorry that the above is a bit technical and especially hard to follow without diagrams. Some day soon I might get off my backside and produce the necessary diagrams to explain it more fully. In the meantime I recommend watching David Morningstar's wonderful slomos where these effects can be observed.
Back to top
 

Cranks are little things that make revolutions.&&
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4738
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #17 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:00am
 
Usually I can keep up with technical theory fairly well but that just went right over my head LOL.    Grin Grin  Thanks a lot for trying to explain it though Aussie.  I will take a look at DM's videos again and see if I can't piece together what your saying. This is coming from a guy who barely passed geometry so it may take me awhile.

One of the reasons I was so sketchy on this theory was the simple fact that if it was the case it should be fairly obvious to anyone who has spent a good amount of time slinging. And yet such is not the case as this entire thread seems to bear out. And as history seems to bear out.  The sling has been around for thousands of years...this should be known by know if it was real. I don't know... Back to the drawing board.  Tongue

Back to top
 

Political correctness is based on the universally understood yet unspoken rule that you are not allowed to recognize patterns.
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Past Moderator
*
Offline


Joined Nov. 1, 2006  Luke
14:14

Posts: 3265
Melbourne, Australia
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #18 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 7:46am
 
No, not entirely back to the drawing board. It's only that there are more factors coming into play than the fact that a short sling rotates rapidly around the hand. Short slings are "twitchier" but I think the main thing against long slings and accuracy is that it may be harder to control a long, completely non-rigid implement which is free to move. I'm still fairly convinced that there is an optimum length for every slinger, style, projectile combination that not only gives max. velocity but optimum accuracy as well.
Back to top
 

Cranks are little things that make revolutions.&&
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4738
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #19 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 3:16pm
 
Aussie wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 7:46am:
I'm still fairly convinced that there is an optimum length for every slinger, style, projectile combination that not only gives max. velocity but optimum accuracy as well.



I would agree with that statement too. That's something that has been on my mind for awhile. I have been wondering for some time now if somehow one could get a big enough group of fairly seasoned slings to give their arm length, swing style, sling length and type if some sort of pattern would emerge? Might be interesting...
Back to top
 

Political correctness is based on the universally understood yet unspoken rule that you are not allowed to recognize patterns.
 
IP Logged
 
peacefuljeffrey
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Peace through superior
slinging power!

Posts: 2700
West Palm Beach
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #20 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 8:10pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Aug 4th, 2010 at 2:21pm:
I don't get very good accuracy with slings that are too short or too long.  I like slings to be around half my height, folded length, so a 39" sling is good for me.  I get the best accuracy with fast, smooth slings.  These slings generally have thin cords, as Luke said, and thin pouches also.  My most accurate sings are either TS3, Apache, seatbelt, and pj slings.  


I can't really talk about accuracy because I've never gotten to do any slinging where I was shooting for a target object instead of just hurling rocks or golf balls down a field. Kinda lame.

The way I judge accuracy is to see if my releases go out at about the right elevation and the right degree left-to-right (i.e. straight forward). I use PJ slings, seatbelt slings and woven split pouch slings. They all have single-strand cords made of nylon paracord or other synthetic utility cord. I have never made the more traditional-type slings a lot of folks here have done. It's not that I don't have braiding or knot-tying expertise, it's just that I'm a bit lazy about the time and analysis needed to work out all the complexity.
Back to top
 

Cradled rock is slung&&Once around the back and gone&&Flying far and true
 
IP Logged
 
peacefuljeffrey
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Peace through superior
slinging power!

Posts: 2700
West Palm Beach
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #21 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 8:17pm
 
Oh, I should add that while I do like the idea of using natural materials, I tend to gravitate to using synthetics because I consider them more durable and resistant to various problems (everything from abrasion to moisture). I like the craft of the traditional materials and techniques, but I like the simplicity and worry-free characteristics of synthetics. I don't have to put whippings on my slings, for example, or use glue. The materials are always consistent. There's no need to stitch or sew.

Please don't take me to mean that I'm badmouthing natural slings; I admire them. Not all of the designs suit me, that's true, but in general, I think they're cool. Maybe some day I'll do one in hemp just for the heck of it (since I do have some hemp spools around). It might be nice as a change.
Back to top
 

Cradled rock is slung&&Once around the back and gone&&Flying far and true
 
IP Logged
 
peacefuljeffrey
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Peace through superior
slinging power!

Posts: 2700
West Palm Beach
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #22 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 8:31pm
 
Morphy wrote on Aug 6th, 2010 at 9:05pm:
I have a pet theory that longer slings could be easier for accuracy then shorter ones within reason.  If you think about the split-second timing it requires to release a stone so that it actually hits a small target a twenty yards, and then consider that a longer sling is traveling a longer arc of circle then a shorter one, then if both are swinging at approximately the same speed the longer sling will take more time to travel through that short window of opportunity for a perfect shot then a really short one.

Anyone feel free to shoot holes in this theory as it's just a theory.   And I can't prove it one way or the other. I think about it like a small gear and a big gear. The small gear might do many revolutions in the same time that a large gear does one even if the base rpm is the same.

Anyone see where I'm going with this, or is this rubbish?  Cheesy


I think that your theory is sound, but your gear analogy needs work.
It's not about the RPM staying equal, it's about the speeds being equal.

If, at the pouch, your sling is going 100mph, on a short sling, you will have a higher RPM than on a long sling. Although I'm not well-versed on it, I think this could relate somewhat to Keppler's laws of planetary motion: There's a specific relationship between the period of revolution, the length of the orbit, and the speed of the orbiting object. A planet in a distant orbit (a long one) will arc slower than one in a smaller orbit going the same speed. That's part of why a "year" is not constant among all the planets.

So if you are trying to get the same speed out of two slings, one short and one long, I believe you would have a shorter time period during which to accurately release a short sling than you would a long one, in that "window" mentioned.
Back to top
 

Cradled rock is slung&&Once around the back and gone&&Flying far and true
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4738
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #23 - Aug 7th, 2010 at 9:20pm
 
peacefuljeffrey wrote on Aug 7th, 2010 at 8:31pm:
Morphy wrote on Aug 6th, 2010 at 9:05pm:
I have a pet theory that longer slings could be easier for accuracy then shorter ones within reason.  If you think about the split-second timing it requires to release a stone so that it actually hits a small target a twenty yards, and then consider that a longer sling is traveling a longer arc of circle then a shorter one, then if both are swinging at approximately the same speed the longer sling will take more time to travel through that short window of opportunity for a perfect shot then a really short one.

Anyone feel free to shoot holes in this theory as it's just a theory.   And I can't prove it one way or the other. I think about it like a small gear and a big gear. The small gear might do many revolutions in the same time that a large gear does one even if the base rpm is the same.

Anyone see where I'm going with this, or is this rubbish?  Cheesy


I think that your theory is sound, but your gear analogy needs work.
It's not about the RPM staying equal, it's about the speeds being equal.

If, at the pouch, your sling is going 100mph, on a short sling, you will have a higher RPM than on a long sling. Although I'm not well-versed on it, I think this could relate somewhat to Keppler's laws of planetary motion: There's a specific relationship between the period of revolution, the length of the orbit, and the speed of the orbiting object. A planet in a distant orbit (a long one) will arc slower than one in a smaller orbit going the same speed. That's part of why a "year" is not constant among all the planets.

So if you are trying to get the same speed out of two slings, one short and one long, I believe you would have a shorter time period during which to accurately release a short sling than you would a long one, in that "window" mentioned.



That's exactly what I was trying to say, except your post managed to make some sense of it. I guess this is one of those things that might be true or might not, but I have no way of proving it. As I said in a earlier post I would guess that it would be a known fact by now if it was true... But at the same time there are many reasons for using the length you use, and perhaps if there is a grain of truth in the theory it is not enough an advantage when compared to the disadvantages that come a long with a long sling. We tend to use a sling for fun, but I can imagine slings were more specialized back when they meant business. Longer for the start of a battle, shorter for hunting in wooded areas... etc.

Back to top
 

Political correctness is based on the universally understood yet unspoken rule that you are not allowed to recognize patterns.
 
IP Logged
 
leadrocks
Senior Member
****
Offline


stay simple. serve god.
live free.

Posts: 337
custer city, oklahoma
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #24 - Aug 8th, 2010 at 10:23pm
 
something i have been working on that seems to have improved my accuracy considerably. i know similar explanations of this have been posted many times. my release timing stays consistent. i use a sidearm throw that kinda switches to a more byzantine style on shorter target throws. i keep my body angle to the target and my release timing the same on every throw. Just change the angle that i bring the sling around to change elevation/distance. shorter distance throws come around almost over my shoulder and longer distance throws come around below my waist. seems to help eliminate some of the variables in the throw. helps me a lot.
Back to top
 

'Those who would sacrifice their freedom for safety&&Will find that they will inherit neither'&&--Benjamin Franklin
 
IP Logged
 
Rockman
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 1267
Lima, Peru
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #25 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 4:43pm
 
I can say for a fact that a shorter sling is more accurate, but you loose power. And vice-versa.
Back to top
 

Preserving the sling, mankind´s original Magnum. Rookie slingers are modern superheroes: Never far away from trouble. Rockman sling tutorial: http://slinging.org/index.php?page=how-to-make-a-rockman-sling---bruno-tosso
 
IP Logged
 
walter
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 2046
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #26 - Aug 9th, 2010 at 6:06pm
 
Started out with 30 to 33 inch slings. It's been a few years and now my slings are all 26 to 28 inches. Not much difference in length, but a huge difference in accuracy. I'm sure practice has something to do with it  Wink, but I'm much better with a 28 inch sling than a 30 inch sling.

I use Aussie's seatbelt sling as a standard, trying to match its performance with hemp and wool over hemp split pouch slings. Finally made a hemp sling that is as good as the seatbelt. The wool over hemp just a bit slower. These slings have small diameter cords and short split pouches.

walter
Back to top
 

Perseverence furthers
 
IP Logged
 
lobohunter
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


where be a rock and a
string there be a sling

Posts: 1822
eugene or
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #27 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 6:37pm
 
the change in slings that improved my accuracy most was the wrist loop
Back to top
 
bigbadwolf41  
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 4738
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #28 - Aug 25th, 2017 at 8:03pm
 
The things I have come to use include paracord, instead of the wool I used when first commenting on this thread as well as a tab of sufficient thickness and size. 

For the most part though I think most slings can work well. Especially if you've taken the time to get used to them. Never tried the wrist loop, though it looks intriguing.
Back to top
 

Political correctness is based on the universally understood yet unspoken rule that you are not allowed to recognize patterns.
 
IP Logged
 
Jaegoor
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 1784
Gender: male
Re: Sling manufacturing techniques for accuracy.
Reply #29 - Aug 26th, 2017 at 1:51am
 
Stellen sie sich hin. Ihre Schleuder reicht bis zum Boden. Wenige cm über denn Boden. Diese Länge ist optimal. Achten sie auf die  Art des geflechtes . Zu locker ist nicht gut .  Zu dünn ist auch nicht gut. Sind sie ein erfahrener slinger, dann ok.
Lieber etwas weniger Geschwindigkeit .  Ich selbst mag Balearic Slings für die Genauigkeit.  Ihr Schwerpunkt liegt nicht in der Mitte .  Eine schallzunge / bremse erhöht die Genauigkeit erheblich.
Achten sie auf ein stabiles Zentrum. Zielen sie mit dem Bauchnabel. Der arm folgt der Hüfte . Nicht umgekehrt .  Ihr Schuß geht zu weit nach Links?  Zuviel Power im Arm. Sie haben bald schmerzen in Schulter und Ellenbogen. Es bilden sich blasen am Finger.
Ihr Schuß geht zu weit rechts? Ihr Bauchnabel zeigt nicht auf das Ziel. Sie schießen in die Richtung die ihr Bauchnabel zeigt.
Es kann schmerzen im unteren rücken geben.
Back to top
 

Bono Mellius
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Curious Aardvark, Rat Man, Bill Skinner, Masiakasaurus, Chris, Mauro Fiorentini, David Morningstar) - (Moderator Group: Forum Moderator)