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Clay ammo durability? (Read 808 times)
Zywack
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Clay ammo durability?
Jul 28th, 2010, 7:53am
 
Hello everyone!
 
I've recently completed my first clay ammo batch. Although I'm an absolutely horrible craftman (I recently finished building a Balearic sling target using the specs presented in the Guide section of this site, and even something as simple as that is considered 'challenging' for me) and that I never did anything related to clay before that, the end result looked quite good. The balls were pretty round, looked decent, of an acceptable weight (Though slightly lighter than most similarly sized rocks), and felt quite solid as you couldn't squish them with your hands. You could knock them on a table and they still looked perfect.
 
What happened when I slung them? They disintegrated. They don't break off or shatter: You can see a brownish/grayish smoke puff where it hits, and then you can't find even a trace of it left. They were only sun dried so I suppose that's normal, although I admit I expected a shatter and not a disintegration even at medium power. That lead me to wonder...
 
Did anyone manage to make durable clay ammo/shot/glande/ball? How does fired clay ammo fare? If the Romans and other cultures used them as ammunitions in wars, then I assume they have to be relatively durable. Logically, if the ammo disintegrate upon hit like mine does, then the vast majority of the impact was absorbed by the ammo and not the guy getting shot at.
 
I unfortunately have no easy access to a kiln or even a regular bonfire (Municipal laws: You can't make an outside fire no matter the circumstances; that even applies to properly made and safe fires that are located over a 500m area with nothing but rocks and nothing flamable around). My sundried ammo flies well enough, but it unfortunately doesn't satisfy my curiosity at all regarding how durable clay ammo can get.
 
So if anyone has made fired clay ammo, or any type of durable clay ammo, please do tell Smiley
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wanderer
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #1 - Jul 28th, 2010, 8:24am
 
If clay bullets hits anything hard I would expect them to disintegrate. I'm used to it! They will usually hold up to collisions with anything less than a solid obstruction. You can toughen them some by mixing in paper fiber or similar material.
 
Fired ones I have not bothered with, but they will be lighter than when sun-dried since less water is left in the clay. I would expect them to shatter anyway hitting a solid obstruction.
 
I don't believe durability in war was necessarily an asset. You just leave something for the other guys to throw back at you.
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David Morningstar
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #2 - Jul 28th, 2010, 9:11am
 

Yes, my dried clay ammo turns to dust when it hits anything hard, but I can throw them over grass all day. They turn to mush if they get wet for long enough too.
 
I havent tried fired clay yet, you can do it with a fairly intense wood fire. Look up 'pit kiln'.
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #3 - Jul 28th, 2010, 9:27am
 
As everyone else has said my clay ammo also turns to dust when it hits anything solid. I also have been wondering about the benefits of fire hardening. I found this video on youtube for another project I am working on and considering trying to harden clay with it.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31G6CMh0DLI
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ishi
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #4 - Jul 28th, 2010, 10:35am
 
i bought a package of Natural Modeling Clay a couple days ago
made 7 balls from 500g
 
just dropped one of them from a height of 5 ft onto a piece of steel, broke up big time
 
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Dan
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #5 - Jul 28th, 2010, 10:54am
 
I have made clay ammo before and actually kind enjoy the cool "puff" of dust this way you can sling trees, rocks, without your ammo flying back at you flying back. The best way to make it stronger I have found is to take out as many little rocks and leaves as you can. My first batch had so many impurities that they flew apart in the air , the other batches I took the time to remove most of the impurities and it made the ammo much stronger.  Smiley
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Eoraptor
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #6 - Jul 28th, 2010, 12:17pm
 
Removing impurities will help make it stronger, and adding grit makes pottery stronger, but I don't know if that will really work with slinging glandes.  Has anyone ever tried it?  
I haven't really tried making clay glands because the good clay around here comes from a creek bed, it's shot through with rocks and shells, and takes a lot of processing.  Then I usually use it for pottery...
Fireing is really easy, you let the clay dry for a couple days, then put it in a nice hot fire and pile fine split wood around it.  Sometimes the clay gets so hot that it glows red, but I don't think you need to get it that hot.
Hopefully I'll be able to gather enough clay to make some glandes soon, it sounds like a load of fun.
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #7 - Jul 28th, 2010, 12:17pm
 
I have to make clay ammo, no rocks around here.  The humidity is so high around here that it takes a couple of days to dry.  So, I cook mine in a kiln, I started firing them at 450-500 F.  They worked fine, they turned to dust when I hit something hard and if they got wet they would crumble.  By mistake, I cooked some to 900 F.  They did not crumble in the kiln, the iron in the soil made them turn brick red.  I threw one at a dead tree and almost took my head off, it bounced back almost as fast as I had thrown it.  They will shatter on metal, bounce or break into three or four large fragments on wood and can lay on the bottom of a pond for several days with no apparant effect.  The clay I use is very porous, it will soak up and hold water. I throw them in the kiln wet, most will crack some as I fire them.  If I let them air dry, most will not crack, I usually don.t bother, I just throw them with cracks, it make sure they break if I hit something.
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #8 - Jul 28th, 2010, 1:42pm
 
 Yeah, what they said! Wink  I make them from clay from a creek that flows into my cove.  If you want it without stones just be sure to dig down into the clay about 4in. or more and it will be pure clay without shells and gravel.  Also don't work it when it is too squishy, you want to work it when it is soft but not sticky, that way the finished ammo will not be rough from having  your fingers sticking to it and leaving little spikes and will instead be smooth.  You can also re-wet them when they are dried just by getting your fingers wet and rubbing them, melting the outside of the projectile and smoothing it out, so they are nicely polished.
  I've often wondered if there would be any way of making one that would shatter and release something, like they did with pitch pots but with something less dangerous.  For example you could make two clay bowls about the size of a tennis ball, then fasten the two halves together while wet and then poke a little hole and pour some gravel in.  Then you can plug the hole and let it dry or fire it.  When you throw it at a target it will then be heavier and will hit and break in that puff releasing a shotgun spray of gravel...theoretically.  I am sure there are other things like this you could do too.
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #9 - Jul 28th, 2010, 2:58pm
 
Rockman was taught a method while in the jungles of somewhere in south America on vacation to dry your glandes in the shade of the sun. dunno how much better it is, but i think it's worth a try.
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David Morningstar
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #10 - Jul 28th, 2010, 5:37pm
 
Quote from Bill Skinner on Jul 28th, 2010, 12:17pm:
I have to make clay ammo, no rocks around here.  The humidity is so high around here that it takes a couple of days to dry.  So, I cook mine in a kiln, I started firing them at 450-500 F.  They worked fine, they turned to dust when I hit something hard and if they got wet they would crumble.  By mistake, I cooked some to 900 F.  They did not crumble in the kiln, the iron in the soil made them turn brick red.  I threw one at a dead tree and almost took my head off, it bounced back almost as fast as I had thrown it.  They will shatter on metal, bounce or break into three or four large fragments on wood and can lay on the bottom of a pond for several days with no apparant effect.  The clay I use is very porous, it will soak up and hold water. I throw them in the kiln wet, most will crack some as I fire them.  If I let them air dry, most will not crack, I usually don.t bother, I just throw them with cracks, it make sure they break if I hit something.

 
You have fired that clay then, nice! Yes, dried clay is much less likely to crack than wet clay when fired.  
 
You know how many people are slinging fired clay projectiles these days? Damned few. As in, none that I know of. But they used to be the shizzle before cast lead became cheap enough. Keep doing it, and tell us what you find.    
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Zywack
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #11 - Jul 29th, 2010, 7:27am
 
Thank you for all the answers everyone!
 
It sounds like I've been vastly overcomplicating my clay ammo process... I've been using the water purification process for clay shown on Primitive Living, which obviously takes a whole lot longer than just what you guys do! I suppose that purifying clay is just overkill for clay balls. I currently have a nearly finished another batch made from processed clay though, so I suppose I might as well give it a try to cook them with the methods mentionned here as What Bill Skinner mentionned is pretty interesting! I can see those being more viable in an antiquity battle than the ones that were only sun or shade dried.
 
For the rest of the clay I dug I think I'll simply do it the same way you guys do: So much more time-efficient and actually worthwhile to make for 1-use balls!
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #12 - Jul 29th, 2010, 4:34pm
 
I often use biconical clay projectils with a weight of 40 to 50 gramm. In my garden I find relatively good clay. The sand mixed to it is no problem unless it is too much and spoils the kohesion of the clay. You see that when even wet clay breaks. After forming the projectils in my hands I dry them for about two weeks. When they are really dry I put a couple of them into our fireplace. When I take them out next morning they have a red to black colour and are hard.
Our fireplace has a glass screen. So if a projectile boosts while burning there is no danger. I recommend to use always a facility that is protected against hot clay pieces flying around and hurting people or burning the hopuse.  
 
The aerodynamics of biconic clay projectils are very good. I reach up to 150 meters instead of 100 - 120 using pebbles of comparable weight.
 
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #13 - Jul 29th, 2010, 10:40pm
 
When I collect my clay, I try not to get small gravel or coarse sand.  If some has washed up on the clay, either I toss the whole chunk or scrape off everything.  I don't bothe removing small bits of vegtable materials, they char to ash in the firing.  Watch out for shell, it can turn to quicklime and cause chemical burns.  I collect mussel shells for a potter friend, he chars them to ash and mixes it with his clay.  When he uses that clay, he wears gloves.  From what he tells me, all clay is not the same, what works with my clay may or may not work with different types.  To get a shiny black finish, the red hot pot is placed on a bed of green pine needles and a larger pot is placed over it for 10 minutes or so, then the hot pot is quenched in a pan of water.  I thought the sucker was going to explode but it didn't bother it.  If your clay can survive that, my method should work.  Bill
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Re: Clay ammo durability?
Reply #14 - Jul 30th, 2010, 12:40pm
 
I made hundreds of clay ammo in batches of 40-50,more than that takes too long to make and it's boring(personal limit).Some tips:mixing 15% fine sand in pure clay helps preventing cracking while drying and\or firing (yes some clays crack even when dried,especially on hot sun).When firing make sure that your ammo is completly dried otherwise it will "explode" in fire due to steam forming,and heat them up SLOWLY because even dried clay has some water in it and termic shock is another enemy of pottery.Fired clay ammo is worth to use in 2 cases by me: war\hunting and practiceing with a textil\net backstop so you don't loose them.Majority of the clay ammo i use for long distance shots so i don't fire them because i won't find them anyway,but i fired a few and sling them on wood,stone...they are really hard..I say fired clay ammo made with good clay a bit sand will be as hard as a softer kind of stone
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