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Celtic Sling (Read 9301 times)
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Celtic Sling
Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:21pm
 
I saw this youtube video a few days ago but I want to know if this actually how the celts used their slings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4l0mBx6wVM&feature=related
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #1 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:48pm
 
The sidearm style demonstrated in this video is quite popular and easy to do. As such it is likely to have been widely used by lots of different peoples and is very unlikely to have been the exclusive preserve of the celts. They probably used it and lots of other variations  as well

It's always difficult to determine what slinging styles look like from still pictures where the entire sequence is not shown. One style looks much like another mid-sequence, but the start may have been entirely different.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #2 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:10am
 
it might also be because of the clothes he was wearing, which to me look like it could be celtic.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #3 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 8:16am
 

We have no idea how it was used by them. Their slings were most likely a leather pouch on natural fibre cords.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #4 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:27pm
 
xxkid123 wrote on Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:10am:
it might also be because of the clothes he was wearing, which to me look like it could be celtic.


I agree, the discription for the video said he was just using a sling and wearing celtic clothes.
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I was pretty good at slinging like 10 years ago.
 
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #5 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 7:24pm
 
Dan wrote on Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:27pm:
xxkid123 wrote on Jul 27th, 2010 at 1:10am:
it might also be because of the clothes he was wearing, which to me look like it could be celtic.


I agree, the discription for the video said he was just using a sling and wearing celtic clothes.


The video clip comments on the clothes only, but the original question asked if this was the way that the celts used their slings, ie. asking specifically about the style and the implication is that the clip represents some typical celtic slinger.

Even the clothes are very universal in style and could have been used by lots of different people. In fact you could walk down the main street in any major city on a Saturday night in them without attracting too many sideways glances. However I doubt your average celtic peasant slinger would be dressed in so colouful a tartan trousers on an everyday basis.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #6 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 4:41pm
 
Aussie,

it wasn't everyday at all! Imagine, you would be a poor celtic slinger living 2000 years ago and then suddenly a guy shows up to film you slinging. Wouldn't you put on your best cloth? Wink

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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #7 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 4:50pm
 
The problem with Celtic history is that they had a taboo about writing things down.  It's not that they were ignorant savages, as the Romans would have us believe.  It's sad because it cost us knowledge of 50,000+ years of their culture and history.  Most of what we know about them was written by Caesar as he invaded Gaul.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #8 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 11:47am
 
The Irish celts regarded the sling very highly (I assume English celts probably did aswell) and it was actually a weapon used by most of the heroes and champions of the myths and legends. I think the thing that caught the Irish celts attention was the distance and power behind it as they were obsessed with the feats that their heroes could do. These would be things like, who could jump the highest, run the fastest etc. and if a sling helps you throw a stone the furthest or hardest, then why not have it as a legendary weapon.
As said earlier, they had a tradition of not writing anything down but by passing the stories down in immense detail through word of mouth. Irish history wasnt really ever recorded in writing until around 400AD when Christianity came, and obviously then was changed slightly because of the conflicting religions. From any of my readings however it just seems to say "... cast a stone..." as opposed to any specific movements. I could try to have another read over some stories to see if they shed any light on this topic, but as I say, I reckon it would be something that lends itself to power and distance.

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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #9 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 2:52pm
 
Not quite an answer, but some discussion (heated, but not, I think, bad tempered) re Celtic hill forts in the Middle Iron age and the place of the sling in shaping the hill fort culture of ca. 150 BC-- here

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1274311439

All this to say we don't know what Celtic slings looked like, nor how they done slung.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #10 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 3:23pm
 
A few years ago I was homeschooling daughter Kate.  We did a study of Vercingetorix, the Celtic chieftain who lead the most significant revolt against Rome in Gaul (Present day France).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix
This sparked our interest as to what the Celts were like before the Romans ran them out of Gaul.  I did an exhaustive search for any history or information on the subject.  As far as I can tell there's none.  All I could find was some pictures of their artifacts.  I wasn't into slinging at the time so I don't recall if there were any slings or not. Their written history begins as Caesar records it, beginning with the invasion.  I found some vague reference to some Greek literature on the subject but nothing came of it.  It's very sad that this information is apparently lost forever.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #11 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 3:37pm
 
The history of the pre-Roman Celts can be written-- not just from the stories of those who encountered them, namely the Roman Republic (and earlier the Hellenistic Greek states), but from the archaeology (in the absence of any extended narrative accounts by the Celts themselves). The best man to read about Celtic Gaul right now is Christian Goudineau (e.g. his book on "Cesar et la Gaule", but he's translated e.g. in Cambridge Ancient History volumes). Older is Paul-Marie Duval (v. criticised now); even older, e.g. the French archaeologist Déchelette, and Camille Jullian's turn of last century History of Gaul.

Anyway, some pointers:

Hallstatt princely cultures (C6th), large settlements
Early La Tene, hill fort cultures, around principalities (say ca. 200 BC)
Late La Tene, trasnformation (end of principalities, social tensions, linked with social transformations notably caused by contacts with Rome, slave and wine trade, pressure from Germanic tribes) (say 100 BC- 50 BC).

But it looks a bit different according to e.g. local scholarly tradition, but also different developmental rhythms (e.g. Britain kept the war-chariot, with the concoitant social organization, much later than the mainland).

Best museum for all this: Saint Germain en Laye, near Paris.
Best site for all this: Bibracte, in Burgundy.

here endeth the lesson


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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #12 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 4:58pm
 
Good stuff; thanks.  What I had in mind when I began my search was extended narrative accounts by the Celts themselves, but in their absence this info will do nicely.
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #13 - Jul 30th, 2010 at 5:35pm
 
The Romans didn't run the Celts out of Gaul-- they destroyed a particular civilization, the independent "civitates" of Gaul, left the population there, levied tribute, got the local elites on board. Usual recipe for empire !
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Re: Celtic Sling
Reply #14 - Sep 25th, 2014 at 5:40pm
 
Thearos wrote on Jul 30th, 2010 at 3:37pm:
The history of the pre-Roman Celts can be written-- not just from the stories of those who encountered them, namely the Roman Republic (and earlier the Hellenistic Greek states), but from the archaeology (in the absence of any extended narrative accounts by the Celts themselves). The best man to read about Celtic Gaul right now is Christian Goudineau (e.g. his book on "Cesar et la Gaule", but he's translated e.g. in Cambridge Ancient History volumes). Older is Paul-Marie Duval (v. criticised now); even older, e.g. the French archaeologist Déchelette, and Camille Jullian's turn of last century History of Gaul.

Anyway, some pointers:

Hallstatt princely cultures (C6th), large settlements
Early La Tene, hill fort cultures, around principalities (say ca. 200 BC)
Late La Tene, trasnformation (end of principalities, social tensions, linked with social transformations notably caused by contacts with Rome, slave and wine trade, pressure from Germanic tribes) (say 100 BC- 50 BC).

But it looks a bit different according to e.g. local scholarly tradition, but also different developmental rhythms (e.g. Britain kept the war-chariot, with the concoitant social organization, much later than the mainland).

Best museum for all this: Saint Germain en Laye, near Paris.
Best site for all this: Bibracte, in Burgundy.

here endeth the lesson

...

http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=266


Cunliffe, Iron Age Britain Danebury p92 "Hoard of sling stones"

This is the main evidence used by many for the existence of slings by the ancient Britons. An assumption based upon the assumption that a pile of hand sized stones found at Danebury where sling stones.

Irish mythology talks about casting stones. We have evidence of warriors hand stones. So is this just assumption based upon use in other cultures and/or poor interpretation of the word "sling" synonym "cast". Remember of course that  many of these written texts have been shown to be similar to classics such as the Iliad. Coincidence or Christian reinterpretation to produce a more "acceptable" history?

The sling was not a warrior weapon of the pre-Roman Britons. If it existed in the culture at all it was a weapon of the masses. But more likely, the women, old and children manned the inner defenses around the gates ready to through piled stones at anyone trying to enter the along the inner ditches. That is the perceived view at Danebury now..
Quote:
http://www3.hants.gov.uk/countryside/danebury/danebury-history/danebury-ironage....

Life at Danebury in the Iron Age

Life was short and harsh in the Iron Age. Danebury was predominantly a farming community, the people kept sheep and cattle, wove woollen cloth and made leather goods. As Danebury had few natural it relied on trade with other areas to obtain iron, tin, copper, salt, shale and stone. It is likely that woollen products and grain were traded in exchange for these.

A community of 300 to 400 people lived here for more than 400 years. During that time one of the people’s main tasks may have been to protect livestock and grain from attack by raiding parties. Men, women and children may all have had to fight off invaders by hurling sling stones. Warriors fought with swords and sometimes used horse drawn chariots.

At the highest point of the hill there were shrines and temples. Religion was important to the people who lived at Danebury.

Their pagan belief was that the gods lived in rivers, trees or other natural features. They made offerings to the gods and sometimes sacrifices. Some of the burials uncovered at Danebury are thought to have been sacrificial. These rituals were carried out by the priests, known as druids, who were respected in the community and acted as a link between the people and their gods. They were also law makers, teachers, storytellers and medicine men.

Beneath the modern fields lie the remains of smaller ancient or Celtic fields. Aerial archaeology has allowed us to map these systems, which appear as ‘crop marks’ or different colours in the soil. It shows that the farmed prehistoric landscape was just as busy as that of today.


And more up-to-date reviews of these early works now draws doubt upon earlier assumptions.. after all before Cunliffe no British hillfort had ever been extensively excavated.
Quote:
http://www.academia.edu/7998513/Reassessing_slingstones

On the basis of this review, I contend that many recovered slingstones from these regions are nothing of the sort. Neither the case for, nor the case against them, however, is without difficulty. For example, while it is easy to demonstrate that a group of beach pebbles is or is not well-sorted, and thus perhaps curated, sorting per se is not in fact a prerequisite for effective slinging (Brown Vega & Craig, 2009); rather, it is necessary for us to show that assemblages incorporate stones that fall inside or outside a range attested as effective for slinging in the ethno-historical record — between about 28 grams, the size of the smallest Roman glandes (lead sling-shot) (e.g. Greep, 1987: 183), and just under a kilogram (2 lbs), attested for slingstones in Tahiti by the first western navigator to reach that island (Captain Wallis in Hawkesworth, 1773: 445). Secondly, owing to our incomplete knowledge of the Tertiary geology of these regions (Maiden Castle is unhelpfully recorded on the geological maps of the region as ‘made ground’), we cannot always demonstrate whether stones have been imported onto a site or not. Thirdly, beach pebbles are intrinsically undateable and we have to be very cautious in interpreting their final archaeological relationships. Finally, the process of excavation has destroyed the features from which these stones were recovered and it is often necessary to reconstruct their associations — feature, sedimentological, artefactual — from what is a very incomplete record. For some assemblages from these regions the available evidence is so equivocal that it is impossible categorically to rule in or rule out an artefactual interpretation for them. Nonetheless, the evidence against their identification as slingstones is compelling, certainly enough to raise a 'reasonable doubt', and — in my view — enough validly to challenge the established orthodoxy elaborated above.


Some people trace the words on a page. Others retrace the footsteps of their ancestors.

Nine Ladies, Derbyshire. One of my favorite places.

...


Here endeth todays lesson ...
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