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Distances, again (Read 3929 times)
Thearos
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Re: Distances, again
Reply #15 - Apr 19th, 2010 at 7:10pm
 
If, as DM writes, most slinging action is between opposing lines, the shape of the skirmish is that when the lines approach each other, long range slinging is inaccurate and relatively ineffective, and light infantry, by leaps and bounds, marching in dispersed, can get closer.

Once the lines are closer, the slingers can shoot straight and true (say at 60 m distance)-- but so can bows and javelins, and even hand throwers have a chance to rush within range: so that it's a real fight, and, as Thucydides writes, opposing lines of lights tend to drive each other off the field, in see sawing motions that do not determine the outcome of the heavy infantry slugfest that follows.
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Knaight
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Re: Distances, again
Reply #16 - Apr 19th, 2010 at 11:55pm
 
I recently finished making a projectile velocity calculator, and as mentioned way early on people get better range at a higher angle. So, assumptions.
80 meter range, 10 degree angle: 178 km/hr projectile
250 range, 45 degree angle: 178 hm/hr projectile.

The projectile calculator is a simple excel program. It takes into account 4 variables.
Initial height(C2) Horizontal Distance(B2) Projectile Angle(A2, radians), and Gravity (D2, mostly put there because it is more fun than a constant). Using these, you have the following equation:
B2/(COS(A2)*(((B2*TAN(A2))-(C2))/(0.5*D2))^0.5)

That gets meters per second, from there multiply by 3.6 to get km/hr. I'm making the equation public to make life easier, as calculating velocity from other factors is needlessly time consuming, and difficult to get into excel with parentheses where you want them.
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David Morningstar
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Re: Distances, again
Reply #17 - Apr 20th, 2010 at 6:56am
 

Thearos wrote on Apr 19th, 2010 at 7:06pm:
Iranian slingers with big stones outrange Cretan archers


Quote:
At present the enemy shoot and sling beyond our range, so that our Cretan archers are no match for them.



Well spotted, I hadnt seen that the Persian slingers also outranged Cretan archers. This makes perfect sense, a short wooden selfbow will shoot 150-170 yards, there are several of us here who can outrange that with stones (but not me unfortunately)

Quote:
I am told there are in the army some Rhodians, most of whom, they say, know how to sling, and their missile will reach even twice as far as the Persian slings (which, on account of their being loaded with stones as big as one's fist, have a comparatively short range; but the Rhodians are skilled in the use of leaden bullets)



This means the Persian slingers are serious dudes, sending fist sized stones maybe 200 yards, and this also gives us a handle on Rhodian lead bullets, up to 400 yards!
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David Morningstar
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Re: Distances, again
Reply #18 - Apr 20th, 2010 at 7:13am
 
Thearos wrote on Apr 19th, 2010 at 7:10pm:
as Thucydides writes, opposing lines of lights tend to drive each other off the field, in see sawing motions that do not determine the outcome of the heavy infantry slugfest that follows.  


I suggest that the javelins are held back until they can be used again the heavy infantry. Long range javelins are easy to dodge because they are very visible and slow moving. Look at the judges in Olympic javelin competition for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wdaSwVeTo

Obviously its harder when there are more of them, but I'd want to use the power of the javelin to get kills against the fixed phalanxes of heavy infantry rather than the cheaper nimble peltasts.

Slingers and archers fight each other for possession of the centre ground which is then exploited by the javelin thowers to hit the heavy infantry.
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jlasud
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Re: Distances, again
Reply #19 - May 20th, 2010 at 8:09am
 
I've read about turkish sheperds shots were measured and they easily slung stones 200m.Their longest one reached 240m.Give theese sheperds a bit longer sling and a bag of lead shot and the adrenalin that is pumping through your veins during a battle and you get at glandes storming the enemy at 400-500m I say.A historical script say slingers in Idontknowwhich army were able to get a headshot at 70m...They were slinging all their lifes and where they wanted to do damage they done it...know wonder they were payed with women not gold.
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