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Crusaders hurling darts from a sling? (Read 5641 times)
David Morningstar
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Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Feb 1st, 2010 at 12:38pm
 

This surprised the heck out of me:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TLkKH6WVVRMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=crusades+...

Can the author be confusing slings with crossbows somehow?
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David Morningstar
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #1 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 12:47pm
 

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bayeux_tapestry/sect7_9.html

Quote:
The original Latin used to describe "crossbows" could be rendered perhaps to indicate slings and stones instead.


Okay, confusion over. Its a crossbow Smiley Any ideas what this latin problem might be?
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Fundibularius
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #2 - Apr 23rd, 2010 at 7:36am
 
David, I came across the chronicle in another context. The original text is the Itinerarium peregrinorum et gesta Regis Ricardi, probably written or compiled by a monk at the end of the 12th century (very close to the events described).

The Latin text can be found in the Gallica database http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k50246v.r=Itinerarium+regis+ricardi

It seems to me that the translator into English in the 19th century interpreted the Latin word "ballista" with "sling" every time, no matter if it made sense or not. Hence the passage with Richard the Lionheart using a "sling" with arrows which later turns out to be an arbalest. Obviously, the word ballista in the Latin original text is mostly used for the crossbow (arcuballista), maybe also for small siege engines, but probably not for the sling.

It would be interesting, though, to scan through the original to find if the "real" sling, funda, is also mentioned. There are many combat and siege scenes described.
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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
 
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HurlinThom
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #3 - May 5th, 2010 at 2:11pm
 
Ah, the slings and arrows of outrageous mistranslation! BTW, an arcuballista, modern arbalest, is like a really big crossbow on wheels.

Thom
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #4 - Oct 17th, 2010 at 9:37am
 
of course, nowadays Crusaders use these...

... but I'm sure they're held together with bits of string, sometimes Wink
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maad erllin
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #5 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 7:34am
 
Persians were hurling darts called "Cestrophendone" with slings during the Macedonian war. Tite-Live and Polyb. wrote on it.
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Masiakasaurus
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #6 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 2:49pm
 
maad erllin wrote on Oct 21st, 2010 at 7:34am:
Persians were hurling darts called "Cestrophendone" with slings during the Macedonian war. Tite-Live and Polyb. wrote on it.

We have discussions on the cestros going back ages, I think the question is whether or not the crusaders used something similar.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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maad erllin
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #7 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 4:52pm
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Oct 21st, 2010 at 2:49pm:
We have discussions on the cestros going back ages, I think the question is whether or not the crusaders used something similar.



Well Sorry Tongue I wasn't there going back ages, and I thought it could still give an hint. My bad
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Masiakasaurus
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #8 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 6:52pm
 
It's alright, you don't have to apologize. You have nothing to apologize for, except being helpful. I'm just trying to be helpful too. But you should check out that discussion I linked, it talks about two competing recreations of the cestros sling which is fascinating if you're a history junkie like me.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
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maad erllin
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #9 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 6:54pm
 
Aaaoh! There was a link! I haven't noticed XD

Thanks a lot, I'll have a look at that

And yes, I'm a history junkie... Bachelor studies in it Smiley
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Masiakasaurus
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #10 - Oct 21st, 2010 at 7:11pm
 
Here's the thread that has the alternative cestros. Sorry for hijacking this thread D_M.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
WWW elsabio04  
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slingbadger
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Re: Crusaders hurling darts from a sling?
Reply #11 - Oct 24th, 2010 at 4:29pm
 
It was my understanding that the Crusaders would not have used such a base weapon. There were a bunch of mercenaries on their side called the Tafurs that were deadly accurate with them.
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