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Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri (Read 17945 times)
Thearos
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Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:48am
 
Slingbadger in another thread drew attention to this:

www.mysteriousetruscans.com/caerbas.html

An Etruscan tomb with what seems to be slings. I'll post more pictures: there are in fact 4 of these objects represented on two pillars. Having looked at the pics, I'm almost sure SB is right: these are braided, split pouch slings. The main scholarly publication. H. Blanck e Giuseppe Proietti, La tomba dei rilievi di Cerveteri (1986), argues against slings, but because they think stones would fall through such objects. The parallels from the Baleares, in modern pratice, show this is incorrect. The modern photographs not too good; the C19th watercolours much better, and might even show a finger loop.

V. good catch by SB !!
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Thearos
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #1 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:48am
 
Ecco
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Thearos
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #2 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:48am
 
Ecco
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Thearos
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:49am
 
Watercolour
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Thearos
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 10:50am
 
Detail
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Fundibularius
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 11:44am
 
Hmmm... that would be two slings on each pillar then, right? Hanging with pouches overlapped and one cord (retention?) mainly in the off above the pillar?
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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

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Thearos
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 1:17pm
 
yes, 2 slings per pillar, split pouches (with middle strand) overlapping
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slingbadger
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #7 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 3:42pm
 
A  friend of mine argued that they could be primitive bridles. The center cord would act as a bit, ans the upper and lower cord would go on the muzzle. I think the horse could chew through the bit.
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #8 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:18am
 
I think this is a pretty good picture of the pillars in question. I know this is oversized, but perhaps worth it for the detail.
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Fundibularius
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 10:37am
 
Very good picture, wanderer.

The more I look at it, the less I believe the "things" are slings. To me, they  seem like one item on each side (not two) which runs up and down again the pillar and has a "middle part" of cord (?) between the two "split" sections that remind 3-strand-pouches. Bridle or lead-rope sound more plausible to me, but I know almost nothing about horses and equestrian equipment.

Any ideas what the other items on the right pillar might be?
Could  the sphere at the bottom on the bi-or tripod  be a mortar or kettle? A drum?
Is the thing hanging down left of the "bridle" a drumstick or a dipper?
Is the hanging "sphere" some kind of calabash?
Is that a giant quiver on the right, and its two little brothers left of it knife-sheaths?
Undecided Undecided Undecided

I find the pattern on the "bridle" interesting. Seems like it imitates some twining or twist of the rope, no braiding.
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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
 
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hybrid_throwback
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #10 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 8:39pm
 
some  cults from that region were (and still are) known for using carefully applied ligiatures and bindings to achieve trance states thru blood control. turns up in other cultures too and some used a "tourniquet" technique requiring something to insert a twisting device into.

Just a thought. Something maybe to the bridle idea, though rope bits arent very common they're still used out my way for well trained nags who just need a reminder of what's what more than an actual control device.

also looks a fair bit like a goat hobble for  restraint during slaughtering or milking (in recalcitrant cases).

could also show method of retaining a slave or a sacrifice, whereby one looped cord can have another fixed line double back thru its splitloop.

could be slings but given the clarity of the other tools and weapons shown I don't know why they'd vague out on those for.

lovely pics! to slinging what the Voynich Manuscript is to horticulture  Grin
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:46am
 
well given that all the other carvings look like representations of goods a person would need in the afterlife. Ie: grave goods - it would hold true that the person would need to be able to hunt in the afterlife as well as cook.

They certainly look like slings hanging up to me. And it fits in with the other representations.

It's also a clever way of supplying the dead with their things while the things themselves are kept in the dead persons living family.
Don't know a lot about etruscans - but slings are commonly included in grave goods in other cultures, so why not etruscans as well.

Plus I see no bow and arrows - so slings would be the obvious hunting weapon.
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 8:49am
 
yeah could be it CA.

"All around the walls runs a frieze of crews: helms, spears, shields, perhaps emphasizing the participation of the deceased in military campaigns. It should be emphasized that the tomb dates to the age of the wars with Rome, a little before end of the 4th Century BCE. " 

sounds more like a life story in relief than an attempt to offer "grave goods" which was more common in cultures fairly far behind the one in question. The Villanovans from which Etruscans were meant to be descended were prone to leaving not much more than rings, knives and whatnot near urns for burial. That tomb doesn't look like the work of a superstitious people who needed to hunt for their lunch, more like the modern day "my daddy made a lot of money, and left me quite a bit of it" style family mausoleums found in western cemetaries.

Of course, doesn't rule anything out, and I am sure some mob of dead Etruscan artisans is looking down on us from on high saying "hahaha...what a pack of numbnuts... it's the string you use to keep your dressing gown shut, duh!"

They do look a lot like slings but I reckon over at "www. some kind of site about donkeys. org" they reckon it's donkey leads. at "www. kinky bondage devices. com/forum " it's ligiature cords and at "www. militaristic tendencies.net" it's a braided belt with a loop to hold the rather large throwing axe pictured elsewhere in the tomb.

I go with the life story version, rather than goods, if you want to bury the dead with goods you use goods not images thereof.. efven in cultures that used a lot of token "icons" like the ancient greeks buying foot shaped offerings for sore feet, they still buried you with the real deal.

Maybe they're slings but more memorials of a campaign against a slinging division or a famously captured sling... who knows.

but "On the two semipillars that frame the loculo objects are carved legacies to the life of the aristocratic family" suggests to me the kind of person that probably did not have to hunt their own lunch and would have lost a lot of face if it was thought they'd have to hunt their own in the afterlife.

Can't see why the emphasis would be on the sling lines and the split but not the loop or release... maybe they used a style of fist wrapping one and just holding the other.

It is great fun to do some guesswork though, the human capacity for possibilities always amazes me!

better than playing Wii, anyway  Wink
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 4:18pm
 

The less I know about Etruscan donkey-bondage, the happier I am  Shocked
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Re: Tomb of the Reliefs, Cerveteri
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2010 at 5:42pm
 
David Morningstar wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 4:18pm:
The less I know about Etruscan donkey-bondage, the happier I am  Shocked

Grin

For those of you who do not understand American idioms, "Beating a dead horse" is to continue arguing a point long after the matter has been decided.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
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