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Question: Does lack of weapons knowlege effect historians adversely



« Last Modified by: Curious Aardvark on: Oct 3rd, 2009 at 10:15am »

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Johnny Shumate's paintings (Read 15144 times)
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #45 - Oct 3rd, 2009 at 10:24pm
 
Really the poll question is redundant as a historian is always on a quest for truth so any lack of background knowledge, be it weapons or anything else, will hamper that quest.
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #46 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 4:29am
 
Depends what the historian's a historian of-- if it's a historian works e.g. on political discourse, or land tenure patterns, or the construction of gender, she doesn't necessarily need to know about military hardware.
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #47 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 6:34am
 
true - but making assumptions about weapons use based purely on decorative illustrations just has to be a bit dodgy.

what's wrong with the illustration. Okay the arm position is way off, fine we'll put that down to artistic licence. #
But he also has the wrong leg bent his weight is forward, it should be on his back leg.
Okay we'll put that down to artistic licence too.

His sling pouch is hanging loose on an arm that's about to drop. Just completely impractical. Artistic licence ?

So what we've got - knowlege wise is that the person drawing the picture had heard of slinging, but did not know what a 'working' slinger actually looks like.    

Slinging is a good example of historians drawing incorrect conclusions - as it's near enough a dead art.

And lets be honest here basing your greek style throw on a passage that indicates lead bullets melting because they were slung so hard - possibly - just possibly - not the most truthful or accurate description I've read Smiley

Possibly the three rotations is correct - but given the obvious fiction of the rest of the passage, how can you give creedence to one part of an account when the rest is obvious nonsense ?
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #48 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 7:30am
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 4th, 2009 at 6:34am:
true - but making assumptions about weapons use based purely on decorative illustrations just has to be a bit dodgy.

what's wrong with the illustration. Okay the arm position is way off, fine we'll put that down to artistic licence. #
But he also has the wrong leg bent his weight is forward, it should be on his back leg.
Okay we'll put that down to artistic licence too.

His sling pouch is hanging loose on an arm that's about to drop. Just completely impractical. Artistic licence ?

So what we've got - knowlege wise is that the person drawing the picture had heard of slinging, but did not know what a 'working' slinger actually looks like.    

Slinging is a good example of historians drawing incorrect conclusions - as it's near enough a dead art.

And lets be honest here basing your greek style throw on a passage that indicates lead bullets melting because they were slung so hard - possibly - just possibly - not the most truthful or accurate description I've read Smiley

Possibly the three rotations is correct - but given the obvious fiction of the rest of the passage, how can you give creedence to one part of an account when the rest is obvious nonsense ?


I'm not taking anything from the guys stance because he is clearly fitted into the circular outline of the vessel. Look at the angles of the soles of his feet, for example. This doesnt invalidate the whole picture, we just need to be careful about what we take from it, test it by experiment, compare it to other pictures and text descriptions that we have. Then, maybe, we can speak with some confidence about how it was done.

Anyway, to say that a collection of very different city states that lasted for 500 years all used the same slinging style is a nonsense. You insist you sling the exactly same way as nwmanitou and you blatantly dont :-p
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #49 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 1:17pm
 
Vegetius also says "most people spin three times, but far better is to spin only once", vel sim. So three spins sounds right to me.

Lead melting in the air was, for the ancients, a scientific, observable fact. It's been speculated that it's because sling bullets when picked up were hot-- from impact ? But the three turns also seem to have been common knowledge.

I go 1, 2, 3, throw. Actually, that makes it 4 turns. Hmm.
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #50 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 1:25pm
 
I must say, the arms seem very good to me. The right hand, with the fingers pointing up and thumb forward, seems particularly accurate. The left hand is fine, especially if he's fitting and tensing as he prepares for the shot (next, he can swing upwards, or lift the tensed cords in aiming position, left hand in front, right arm behind his head.

Legs are also good. especially weight on right, back leg, exactly like the Balearic slinger preparing for his shot (which I hastily posted in another thread, apologies).

I agree the bag's odd.
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Re: Johnny Shumate's paintings
Reply #51 - Oct 4th, 2009 at 1:34pm
 
Just to make sure all's clear: the man is preparing to shoot towards our right, yes ? His weight is on his right, back leg, Arrows are coming at him from the right. He's not going to do a "trebuchet" (nice expression) towards our left, but is about to aim towards our right, his front, and perform a helicopter style release.
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