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How to employ bodies of slingers in battle (Read 35545 times)
Thearos
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #75 - Feb 19th, 2012 at 10:05am
 
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #76 - Feb 19th, 2012 at 2:23pm
 
cool Smiley
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #77 - Feb 19th, 2012 at 9:19pm
 
The word "Volley" comes from the Latin "Volare", but I don't know when it was first used or in what context. Undecided
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #78 - Feb 20th, 2012 at 3:17am
 
Nice link!!!
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Thearos
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #79 - Dec 25th, 2012 at 6:53pm
 
All the examples are in Pritchett, but look at Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander, Book 1, chap. 2, paras 4 ff. Alexander surprises the Triballians (Thracian "tribesmen")-- their fighting men form up a line in the shelter of a glen. Alex sends out archers and slingers to pelt them and provoke them out into open ground. It works the Triballians try to close witht he archers, Alex responds by throwing some cavalry forward with orders to check the Triballian charge with javelin fire-- and then personally leads the remaining cav and the heavy infantry against the Triballian. When he makes contact, the advance cavalry party switches from javelins to close in work. The Triballians instantly collapse and run.

Note the very precise use of slingers and archers-- to draw out the enemy (not to "sling over people's heads" etc) before the main engagement.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #80 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 3:58pm
 
Wow..  What a wide ranging question! 

Depends on what your goal is, but there are some generalities that you can employ in just about every conflict.

1.  "Standardize" your troops as much as possible without restricting their effectiveness.  The fact of the matter is that there are situations where forming tight formations is desirable and when forming loose ones are desirable.  Standardization allows the military commander the greatest flexibility.  For Example, I have Joe Schmoe who is great at figure 8, and Bill whos good with helicopter.  As a military commander I will train and drill them to use an Apache throw for close formations and encourage loose formation drilling with freestyle techniques.  This is a widely accepted military concept.  While in the service I learned "Standard" ways of deploying my M-60 Machine gun.  The beauty of this is that I can now be transferred to any other military outfit and seamlessly blend in like I've been there the whole time and the rest of the team knows what they can expect from me.

2. Deploy your units (all of them, not just the slingers) in ways that maximize their ability to inflict harm while minimizing their exposure to harm.  Slinging units are un-armored and therefore, themselves, vulnerable to harassing fire.  The trick is to direct their fire against targets that can't fight back.  Because slingers can achieve longer ranges with standardized lead ammunition, this for me, would be first, other Ranged Units like archers.  Once they are broken(or destroyed), you can direct your (now unchallenged) slingers to fire upon the most threatening units. Above, some of us were saying to deploy slingers to the front to maximize their range.  The problem with this is that your slingers are now exposed to being fired upon by the enemy slingers (because if the enemy is in range, so are you.), or being cut to ribbons by calvary units.  A good general formation to follow should be Armored units with shields to the Front, at least two ranks deep.  These Shield men should "overlap" their shields one on top of the other to create a "wall" of sorts.  Slingers directly behind them launch projectiles from behind this wall.  This maximizes their range and damage potential, while also providing them with protection from other ranged units and ground attack units.

3. Always use volley fire when possible.   Volley fire is great because it provides what appears to be more devastation to the enemy which can demoralize enemy formations.  I say “appears” because the damage is done at the same time to a “chunk” of the enemy, instead of numerous casualties staggered throughout the formation.  It also ensures that the most fire is directed at the same target.  Once you break into loose formations and start firing “at will”, you take away much of the effectiveness of fighting as a unit. 

4.   Ah, who am I kidding here? I could list probably another 30 things!  LOL..
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #81 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 11:08pm
 
LightSlinger wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
2. [b]  These Shield men should "overlap" their shields one on top of the other to create a "wall" of sorts.  Slingers directly behind them launch projectiles from behind this wall.  This maximizes their range and damage potential, while also providing them with protection from other ranged units and ground attack units.



That's precisely what there is no ancient evidence for. Slingers are sent out forward-- though have to be protected and rescued and withdrawn.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #82 - Dec 27th, 2012 at 11:41pm
 
Thearos wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 11:08pm:
LightSlinger wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
2. These Shield men should "overlap" their shields one on top of the other to create a "wall" of sorts.  Slingers directly behind them launch projectiles from behind this wall.  This maximizes their range and damage potential, while also providing them with protection from other ranged units and ground attack units.



That's precisely what there is no ancient evidence for. Slingers are sent out forward-- though have to be protected and rescued and withdrawn.


Ha!  Sounds like shoddy leadership to me!  Lol.  

Jk!  Anyway, my above example is just the way that I personally would deploy them.  Ideally speaking, I would actually place my slingers on the high ground, behind something solid.  Walls, dense tree lines, siege towers(which could actually function as slinging platforms now that I think about it), etc.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #83 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 6:10am
 
LightSlinger wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 11:41pm:
Thearos wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 11:08pm:
LightSlinger wrote on Dec 27th, 2012 at 3:58pm:
2. These Shield men should "overlap" their shields one on top of the other to create a "wall" of sorts.  Slingers directly behind them launch projectiles from behind this wall.  This maximizes their range and damage potential, while also providing them with protection from other ranged units and ground attack units.



That's precisely what there is no ancient evidence for. Slingers are sent out forward-- though have to be protected and rescued and withdrawn.


Ha!  Sounds like shoddy leadership to me!  Lol.


Shoddy isn't the first adjective which comes to mind when reading the best, most detailled account of tactical leadership of Alexander III of Macedonia (Alexander the Great).
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #84 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 9:52am
 
If slingers can launch past the wall,opposing slingers could also sling past the wall (ballistic trajectory) if they receive enemy fire in volleys,and they are a small unit,they could shelter themselves during a volley,then get out,sling,hide,sling.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #85 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 1:34pm
 
jlasud wrote on Dec 28th, 2012 at 9:52am:
If slingers can launch past the wall, opposing slingers could also sling past the wall (ballistic trajectory) if they receive enemy fire in volleys, and they are a small unit, they could shelter themselves during a volley, then get out, sling, hide, sling.


True…  So, perhaps we develop a Drill specifically for the slingers:

1.      "SLINGERS LOAD!"  Slingers Load their weapons while the shield wall maintains active defense against enemy missiles in the layering method I mentioned earlier(one Shield man standing over the front Shield man who is kneeling.)

2.      "READY!"  This is a command for the shield wall to prepare to shift the formation.

3.      "FIRE!"  Standing shield men shift a half-step to the left, and also kneel, which lowers their shields a bit.  This briefly exposes the slingers and allows them to throw their Glandes.  When the sling's release cord hits the shield of the shield man in front, the second rank shield men return to their previous position.


Might work anyway…
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #86 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 2:22pm
 
Yes,it could work,but as i wrote,and i imagine,mostly in small units. Having a slinger unit of 5-8 men deep,couldn't really benefit of the shield wall. with 2 slinger deep ranks it could work.
Also the shield bearing guys can very well be regular infantry with big oval shields for ex.
This might,and probably was used sometime ,somewhere in the past.
The infantry,has to shield themselves anyways of the enemy hail ,and the slingers might use their defense as well.
Or,there could be multiple lines of shield walls,and slingers behind them,with some cavalry on the flanks.
Aaand because most ancient armies had more melee infantry than ranged units,this multiple lines of shield walls and archers,and slingers behind them could be the ultimate solution.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #87 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 2:59pm
 
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #88 - Dec 28th, 2012 at 7:19pm
 
hybrid_throwback wrote on Jan 3rd, 2010 at 7:50am:
Would be interesting to see other people's speeds over the distance (you just have to wait for the thump), even working with rough guesstimates like mine. The range I am sure of but the count is of course one human error from start to finish  Tongue

The speed on the frontpage I think would apply more at short than long ranges and beyond a certain distance would be nothing like the actual speed. 250mph/402.32kph means sending a stone from A to B 150m away (ish) and hearing a thunk around two seconds later.

That's FAST.Really very fast.

Maybe it'd doable. But I don't think the average user will be doing that. The original number may have been reached by guesstimating speeds over 80 yards and then playing around with conversions and extrapolations and bla bla bla.

I could digest that figure more readily with the rider of "250mph under 50m" or similar because the further it goes, the longer it takes to get there, and then some.

I have the range, but im not so sure about the speed. I will have to try it.
Also, how to measure the time accuratly.
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Re: How to employ bodies of slingers in battle
Reply #89 - Dec 29th, 2012 at 10:26am
 
Slinging from within heavy infantry--

1. It is possible that early Spartan armies had people throwing stones by hand from within ranks of heavy infantry; it is also possible that archers fought within such lines (as shown in pottery). It is also likely that in this period (say 600-550 BC) infantry formations were pretty loose.

2. Alexander crammed archers between ranks of heavy infantry-- but only as a gap-plugging measure, in 324-323, when he was running out of Macedonian veterans and his trainee Persian heavy infantry hadn't come on line yet.

3. Generally, lights are sent out in front and withdrawn before the shock. Why do ancient armies not stick them within ranks ? I can think of a few reasons:

a. You abandon the open space between lines of heavies to enemy lights, who will walk up within range and start pelting your heavies.

b. The line of heavies cannot manoeuver, let alone charge-- you lose the momentum leading up to infantry clash.

c. You sacrifice density within the infantry formation, when faced with a higher density formation, which can manoeuver fast and which can replace front line fighters at the sharp end of the infantry clash.

d. shifting ranks of slingers through or around lines of heavies, at the point of contact, is messy and difficult.
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