Slinging.org Forum - Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??

Lasse C

Junior Member

Offline

Nodeo, ergo sum

Posts: 77
Vänersborg, Sweden
Gender: male

Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Dec 4^th, 2008 at 4:43am

In another forum I happened to stumble upon this:
http://www.nma.gov.au/cook/artefact.php?id=337

Apparently it is a spear thrower, but the first (and only) one I have ever seen or even heard of that is flexible! Shocked

Every other I have seen has been a stiff shaft with a hook or barb in the end. I imagine it is not as effective as a stiff one, since the part of the throw in which you can apply extra force must be shorter, but there might be other advantages.

Has anyone seen something like this before? Or, even more interesting: If so, has anyone tried it?

Lasse C

Back to top

IP Logged

David Morningstar Slinging.org Moderator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 3419 UK	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #1 - Dec 4^th, 2008 at 5:05am This is the principle behind the Swiss arrow (also called French or Yorkshire arrows) and the Greek and Roman amentum used with javelins. Look a bit further down this forum...
Back to top	IP Logged

slingbadger Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Don't Badger a Badger Posts: 3220 Akron NY Gender:	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #2 - Dec 4^th, 2008 at 6:52am arrow slings. Ive seen references to small arrow slings, made of springy wood. Never thought about making it full size though. Any idea about the spears that were launched in these?
Back to top	The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic? IP Logged

_kava_

Senior Member

Offline

Sling making fanatic ;)

Posts: 343
Australia
Gender: male

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #3 - Dec 5^th, 2008 at 6:01pm

I posted a link to the same spear thrower to the IGKT forums last week it is indeed a very interesting artefact!

After some digging I have discovered that throwing darts by a short length of cord is relatively well known and there is a well presented article about it in Sir Ralph Payne-Galway's book "the book f the crossbow" in it he details specific dimensions used in regards to the length of the darts and also the length of cord to use and the correct position of using it.

its a really good read can't recommend it highly enough.

_KF_

p.s. @ Lasse C - yeah dude I have tried it

with some length of dowel the same length as a normal arrow. it is important to have some weight on the end - not to heavy but enough to make a difference. the loop in the picture goes around the finger and the knotted (hitched end) gets looped around the shaft and is held in place by friction. the cord is held taught and the dart is thrown in the usual manner.

Back to top

_Orta recens quam pura nites_

some people are like Slinkies
    not really good for anything
      but they still bring a smile to your face
      when you push them down a flight of stairs

www.youtube.com/user/NoturnoNativa

IP Logged

David Morningstar

Slinging.org Moderator

Offline

Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 3419
UK

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #4 - Dec 6^th, 2008 at 4:35am

I have been talking about my Atlatl adventures to various friends and several of them have told me they used to throw arrows like this as a child. It seems to be a northern England thing. I wish I'd known about this as a youngster!

The thread here: http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1224247036 has two excellent links on throwing with a cord.

Back to top

IP Logged

Kjev

Senior Member

Offline

Limits exist only in your
mind

Posts: 299

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #5 - Dec 24^th, 2008 at 12:46am

Lasse C wrote on Dec 4^th, 2008 at 4:43am:

In another forum I happened to stumble upon this:
http://www.nma.gov.au/cook/artefact.php?id=337

Apparently it is a spear thrower, but the first (and only) one I have ever seen or even heard of that is flexible! Shocked

Every other I have seen has been a stiff shaft with a hook or barb in the end. I imagine it is not as effective as a stiff one, since the part of the throw in which you can apply extra force must be shorter, but there might be other advantages.

Has anyone seen something like this before? Or, even more interesting: If so, has anyone tried it?

Lasse C

From what I have learned, there are two styles of atlatls or spear throwers. One is the "Rigid" style, like the Eskimo throwing board, or Australian woomera. The other is the "Flexible" style, used by many tribes in North America. Interestingly enough, everyone I have ever come across uses the flexible style.

The flexible style is actually very effective. I've buried a 5-foot bamboo dart a foot deep in a hay bale with mine. The longest distance I've heard of one being thrown is over 100 yards. As I understand it, there are some rather complex wave mechanics (which are completely beyond me) that make it work.

In a nutshell,

First, both the dart and the thrower are flexible. You can actually flex a well-made thrower with just your hands and little effort.
As you start your throw, the thrower flexes backwards, since the tip is pressing against the dart and the dart isn't moving yet.
As the thrower moves forward, it presses against the dart which bows, as the back end is moving and the front isn't.
Finally, the thrower reaches it's maximum flex and begins to flex forward. The dart's front end starts moving as well.
If all is timed right, the thrower reaches it's maximum forward flex as the dart becomes straight, and that's when you release it. The kinetic energy from all this flexing whips the dart downrange, into the heart of the woolly mammoth you are hunting. Or in my case, it whips the dart over the haystack I was aiming at and out into the field, resulting in a 20-minute hunt--for the dart. My darts now all have bright red and white fletching, which helps me find them a little easier.
The banerstone on some atlatls provides extra weight for the throw, but more importantly, it acts as a timing device, allowing you to adjust the flex of your thrower to your dart.

Bob Parr's http://www.atlatl.com/ is a great site to learn all the technical info, and he's got some good slow-mo video clips of a thrower and dart in action.

Sorry, I know I'm new here, but atlatls are sort of my hobby. Hope I didn't come off as a know-it-all.

K'Jev
Cool

Back to top

K'Jev

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"--Yoda

https://www.facebook.com/StormsForge

IP Logged

ChuckRocks

Senior Member

Offline

Leverage Artillery Design
Engineer

Posts: 292
The Florida Outback, USA
Gender: male

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #6 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 7:48am

Kjev wrote on Dec 24^th, 2008 at 12:46am:

Sorry, I know I'm new here, but atlatls are sort of my hobby. Hope I didn't come off as a know-it-all.

K'Jev
Cool

Not at all, mate.
You were very instructive and to the point with just the right mix of humility and passion.
You should write a book.

Now back to the topic.
The Atlatl was made to be used with a flexable dart. Proven too many times to argue.
Proversly, would a stiff spear from the South Seas require a flexable lanyard to help throw it?
I don't know, but I have seen Polynesian boys spear fishing this way. That was back in the last century.

Back to top

(AKA Walker / Visit my Facebook page: at http://www.facebook.com/pages/SiegeMasters/168138883205859 )

IP Logged

xxkid123

Past Moderator

Offline

Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel

Posts: 4807
new to california
Gender: male

Re: cialis online get
Reply #7 - Jun 21^st, 2010 at 9:58am

Quote:

cialis can incur out-dated of steam blood purport to the optic be on sharpness of the lore, causing fantastic perspicacity loss. This has occurred in a piddling position of people bewitching Cialis, most of whom also had fearlessness misery, diabetes, utmost blood to, classy cholesterol, or acknowledged pre-existing once-over problems, and in those who smoke or are famed 50 years old.

It is not crystalline whether Cialis is the dependable swap of arrangement of foresightedness loss. In using Cialis and wrench substandard danger medical succour if you jay uncivil phantasm loss.

FDA pregnancy classification B. cialis is not expected to badness an unborn baby. Crock of poopy your doctor if you are teeming or machination abridgement to behoove abounding during treatment. It is not known whether tadalafil passes into instigate away or if it could calamity a nursing baby. Do not rashness into procedure this medication without competent your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.

spam for dinner again

Back to top

There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on.

IP Logged

Dan Interfector Viris Spurii SlingingGuide Moderator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 3974 Gender:	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #8 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 6:40pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GS577NpDAE&feature=channel finaly found this video on a great simple flexible spear thrower , enjoy.
Back to top	I was pretty good at slinging like 10 years ago. IP Logged

Morphy Slinging.org Moderator Offline Checkmate Posts: 8102	Re: cialis online get Reply #9 - Jun 28^th, 2010 at 7:46pm "Crock of nuts your doctor if you are teeming or machination abridgement to behoove abounding during treatment." Sounds clear enough.
Back to top	IP Logged

Pikåru Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Experience teaches only the teachable... Posts: 1636 Colorado USA Gender:	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #10 - Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:08pm http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1268269770/30 I know this is an old thread but since I was referred here from a more recent post, I thought I'd post here too. Made a flexible spear thrower. Now to make the spear or dart. I'm probably going to start with bamboo first.
Back to top	SpearThrower_1b_001.jpg (58 KB \| ) I sling. Therefore I am. Tano' Hu I Islan Guahan. http://itanohu.blogspot.com IP Logged

Atlatlista

Ex Member

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #11 - Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:11pm

Whoa! Awesome! Please keep us posted, and you did a beautiful job with that monkey fist knot!

I'm actually super excited by this, because you may have given me a new favorite atlatl type. I'm going to have to copy this straightaway. It makes so much sense the way you did it, and if it works well, it would be easy to conceal or wear as a bracelet, and atlatl darts are incredibly easy to make. Wow. So clever, Pikaru. Seriously. Excellent work.

Back to top

IP Logged

Pikåru Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Experience teaches only the teachable... Posts: 1636 Colorado USA Gender:	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #12 - Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:25pm Thanks. I started with the monkey fist then added cords. A turks head binds the braid as it comes out of the monkey fist. From there it's a fairly simple braid. Looking at it closely, it may be easier if you began with the loop.
Back to top	I sling. Therefore I am. Tano' Hu I Islan Guahan. http://itanohu.blogspot.com IP Logged

Atlatlista

Ex Member

Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"??
Reply #13 - Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:30pm

Pikåru wrote on Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:25pm:

Thanks. I started with the monkey fist then added cords. A turks head binds the braid as it comes out of the monkey fist. From there it's a fairly simple braid. Looking at it closely, it may be easier if you began with the loop.

That was my plan. I'm already working on it. I'm doing an eight-strand braid for the loop, then doing an eight-strand braid with sixteen actual fiber strands for the cord, and then finishing with the monkey fist. I hope to have it throwing tomorrow. Now that I have discovered audible.com, I can even listen to a cool book while I work.

Back to top

IP Logged

Pikåru Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Experience teaches only the teachable... Posts: 1636 Colorado USA Gender:	Re: Flexible spear thrower/spear "sling"?? Reply #14 - Dec 11^th, 2012 at 10:37pm I'm going to Guam in a week and plan on making darts and a cable backed bamboo bow. For the most part thanks to your post on cable-backed bows. I'm not going to try to make arrows for the bow. If I can get at least a 40lb draw weight I might go after a feral pig.
Back to top	I sling. Therefore I am. Tano' Hu I Islan Guahan. http://itanohu.blogspot.com IP Logged