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Re: david and goliath (Read 93455 times)
NECURS
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #105 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 10:09am
 
You did a Great Job In the Documentry recreating Goliaths downfall Luis.  I was wondering what kind of accuracy could be achieved with the Sling and after seeing you Hit those Coke Bottle's and the sensor, I can see that with practice a Slinger could use the Sling as a Very Accurate Hunting Weapon, I've watched lot's of Slinging Video's and I've never seen a more Powerful & Accurate Slinger than Luis Pons Livermore. Excellent Slinging Luis !  



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NECURS
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #106 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 11:51am
 
balearic-sling wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 6:09pm:
here you are , sorry for a long time with out saying nothing.


prices

depends of wich kinde of sling you want.
A very simple one , is 25€ , a complet one with out leather 35  
€,with leather 40, and a long for long distance 40.
All are hand made and each one diferent .All with natural elements  
and they exactly the ones we use.
I dont know the shipping cost.
''


Hello Luis, I'm real Interested In your Sling's, I dont know how much the above price quote's are compared to In American Dollar's, I'll send you a PM with my E-Mail address well get somthing figured out where I can Buy some of your Sling's, Thank's !

Kenny
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« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2010 at 1:09pm by NECURS »  

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wanderer
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #107 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 12:34pm
 
NECURS wrote on Mar 12th, 2010 at 11:51am:
...you E-Mail me at XXXX well get somthing figured out where
Kenny

Thanks for the e-mail address Kenny Wink

We've got PMs to save you from the spammers etc. unless you really want everyone to have your e-mail address. You can modify your forum post to 'expunge' it. Smiley

Click on Luis' name to get to his profile, from which you can send a PM instead.
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NECURS
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #108 - Mar 12th, 2010 at 1:13pm
 
Thank's Wanderer, I guess a PM would work out better, I dont want no Mail from ANTI'S !
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #109 - Mar 16th, 2010 at 11:02am
 
Just for the record... saw this one today in a supermarket. "To slay a mighty thirst".  Wink
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Goliath.jpg

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Re: david and goliath
Reply #110 - Mar 19th, 2010 at 3:12pm
 
nice beer, i will have to taste it before smashing it!
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #111 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 6:21pm
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 7:10pm:
In response to Iron Goober in the Overlooked variable thread, taking the Bible literally must be done very carefully. Remember that you are reading an update of a translation of a translation of a translation (check my math: Original Aramaic to Greek to Latin to German/English and then modernized. 1 original, 3 translations, and a revision). I am Christian, though several on this forum are not, and I do not believe that anyone could translate through 3 languages with readers over 1685 years and orally passing on these stories for as much as 6000+ years before that without the meaning of the words let alone the way people think changing. If you are going to take the Word literally use the direct dead sea scrolls translation to avoid language drift, and try and think like someone living through these events. Otherwise your cultural biases will inevitably color your judgment without you realizing it.

And for the thread topic itself, the overlooked variables: David was probably a 5 ft. 15 year old (or older, "manhood" was historically at age 25) with no armor and a weapon that in all likelihood was not scorned by his own warriors nor the opposing side. So why is there the popular myth of the 12 year old being laughed at who surprised everyone by defeating the 12 ft. monster? Why? And what about Elhanan son of Jair? in 2 Samuel 21:19 he is credited with killing Goliath! (Except in KJV where they added 'brother of' so that Elhanan killed Goliath's brother.) I don't mean for anyone to point and shout "ahah! proof of the fallacy!" but these are the things I wonder about. Regardless of religion someone killed Goliath.
Here's my two cents on a couple of the Goliath points:
Apparently, we're not sure exactly how many inches the referenced 'cubit' translates to. We'll never get to the bottom of that, but somewhere between 7'5" and 9' seems likely. I've heard 12'....but honestly...if we're taking about a 'healthy giant' rather than a pituitary giant, 7'5"  is not an incredible height. Many athletes today approach that size. As to David killing Goliath with a sling, all the kilonewton tests etc, let me throw this one out there: The Biblical accounts available to all and sundry are not very detailed...more like Cliff Notes. We 'know' that David picked up five stones.
We 'know' that Goliath wound up with a stone  in his forehead. Was it the first stone? The fifth?
See where I'm going here? These details are not in the Scriptures. As for being actually killed by that stone in the forehead....coulda been, I s'pose...why not?  OR...How 'bout Goliath was simply rendered unconscious/helpless by the blow, whereupon David killed him with a sword?
I Samuel 17:50 supports the first conclusion, while I Samuel 17:51 appears to support the seond conclusion. We've 'proven' that a giant can be killed by a stone from a sling ( via kilonewtons),
and we've had a lot of fun doing it. Smiley Myself, I've grown up with the impression that Goliath died by the sword in the end...then again, the sling was indispensable to that end.
Can you tell I spend more time with Biblical history than I do with slings? Hehehe Wink
Never mind all o' that....time to get back to the topic at hand: slings and slinging.
GMB

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Re: david and goliath
Reply #112 - Oct 30th, 2010 at 7:08pm
 
Greenmanbacchus wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 6:21pm:
we're not sure exactly how many inches the referenced 'cubit' translates to. We'll never get to the bottom of that, but somewhere between 7'5" and 9' seems likely. I've heard 12'....but honestly...if we're taking about a 'healthy giant' rather than a pituitary giant, 7'5"  is not an incredible height.

A cubit is the length of a forearm and a span is the width of a spread hand, from thumb tip to pinkie finger tip. The first recorded cubit was the Egyptian cubit, slightly longer than the average forearm and was probably based on the cubit of a taller pharaoh. Jewish cubits were borrowed from Greek, or more likely Babylonian cubits in other cases so they can be assumed to apply here.

Saying 7 to 9 feet overlooks the fact that the average height and arm span, and by derivation cubit and span, were shorter in antiquity than in modern times because of dietary and lifestyle differences. We may not know how tall Goliath was but we absolutely should not use modern sized cubits and spans as a reference.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #113 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 12:08am
 
Masiakasaurus wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 7:08pm:
Greenmanbacchus wrote on Oct 30th, 2010 at 6:21pm:
we're not sure exactly how many inches the referenced 'cubit' translates to. We'll never get to the bottom of that, but somewhere between 7'5" and 9' seems likely. I've heard 12'....but honestly...if we're taking about a 'healthy giant' rather than a pituitary giant, 7'5"  is not an incredible height.

A cubit is the length of a forearm and a span is the width of a spread hand, from thumb tip to pinkie finger tip. The first recorded cubit was the Egyptian cubit, slightly longer than the average forearm and was probably based on the cubit of a taller pharaoh. Jewish cubits were borrowed from Greek, or more likely Babylonian cubits in other cases so they can be assumed to apply here.

Saying 7 to 9 feet overlooks the fact that the average height and arm span, and by derivation cubit and span, were shorter in antiquity than in modern times because of dietary and lifestyle differences. We may not know how tall Goliath was but we absolutely should not use modern sized cubits and spans as a reference.
Well said, Masiakasaurus....an element of doubt is apt to remain.
We can 'assume' the Hebrew cubit and be reasonable enough ( if not definitively accurate).
Suffice it to say that Goliath was no doubt a really big guy.  I suppose we've all seen Brad Pitt as Achilles and his battle ( if you wanna call it that) with the giant Boagreus. It seemed to me (for what that's worth) a pretty fair idea of what David was up against. Better him than me in either case LOL.
GMB
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #114 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 5:25am
 
Whatever Goliath's actual height may have been in modern units of measure is interesting and sems to be much more of an issue to us than t was at the time. Note that Saul says to David that Goliath is a threat because he has been a warrior from his youth, ie. a highly experienced warrior. He does not say that Goliath was a threat specifically because of his huge size.

The notion, as portrayed in some video re-enactments, that David was some wimpy kid not even strong enough to lift Saul's sword just doesn't stack up. David tried on Saul's armour and rejected it because it was too restrictive not because it was too big. Saul was a big man for his time. It is one of the reasons he was chosen as king. So we can presume David was also reasonably big as well or he wouldn't have even tried the armour on. The idea that David was like some kid at a dress up party in totally outsized clothes is quite unrealistic. It is unclear whether the sling stone injury was immediately fatal or whether Goliath was technically still alive. However David apparently had no trouble decapitating Goliath with his own huge sword.
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #115 - Nov 5th, 2010 at 8:37am
 
[, all the kilonewton tests etc, let me throw this one out there: The Biblical accounts available to all and sundry are not very detailed...more like Cliff Notes. We 'know' that David picked up five stones.
We 'know' that Goliath wound up with a stone  in his forehead. Was it the first stone? The fifth?
See where I'm going here? These details are not in the Scriptures. As for being actually killed by that stone in the forehead....
  [/b] [/quote]

I Can not answer all your questions but let me start with this "All the Bible is truth but not all truth is in the Bible" Example God created the earth ,true and in the Bible ,Dan posting on slinging.org true but not in the Bible. I do not want to get into "deep" theological discussion about creation and such because they usually end poorly so I will continue on David and Goliath, the part you are forgetting is God gave David great bravery in tough trials this is part of the story, also most of us hearing that david was four feet tall and goliath 50ft tall is usually an artist PERCEPTION and is usually way off. Also regarding how many shots he took
I just go by what it says.
48 As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. 49 Reaching into his bag and taking out A stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.
This indicate he only used one stone also keep in mind it says Goliath had his shield bearer IN FRONT of him so david had an even smaller (moving) target and it is my understanding that when ancient discoveries tried this it took the BALERIC WORLD CHAMPION several times to hit a stationary target that wasn't coming towards him with a sword, asuming David wasn't a superhero I am pretty sure there was some Divine intervention in this story.  Wink  Smiley
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"Like tying a stone to a sling is the giving of honor to a fool" Proverbs 26:8
 
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #116 - Mar 8th, 2011 at 2:10pm
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umyfth4zvAM

Para aquellos hermanos que sólo hablan Español, he subtitulado el video.

I translated the video and placed subtitles for non English speakers.
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Preserving the sling, mankind´s original Magnum. Rookie slingers are modern superheroes: Never far away from trouble. Rockman sling tutorial: http://slinging.org/index.php?page=how-to-make-a-rockman-sling---bruno-tosso
 
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #117 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 2:46pm
 
I just remember a random knowledge I got about giants.  I read an newspaper article about a Norwegian living in ... 1700s, I think. 
Point was he was big, maybe 2 meters tall, and in his youth he was serving in the Denmark/Norwegian king`s giant soldier platoon.  Apparently kings back then gathered the huge boys in their country to have a platoon of giants, probably mostly for the impressing/imposing  look in parades.  That idea might have been very old.
timann
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #118 - Mar 9th, 2011 at 3:52pm
 
It must have been some fashion in the 18th century. The Prussian kings of the time also had units of tall soldiers, usually called the "long fellows". Their value in marching long distances and in combat is a bit dubious, but they were surely a sight to see (which is probably why they often served as palace guards).

I remember hearing many years ago about a Neolithic site in West Germany which contained at least four male skeletons measuring between 2 meters and 2,30 or even 2,40. If I recall correctly, they had all been (ritually?) executed.
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Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen  slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote  des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte  daz in nie wafen sit versneit.
 
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Re: david and goliath
Reply #119 - Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:10am
 
Four part article:

http://www.examiner.com/methodist-in-national/david-and-goliath-for-grown-ups-pa...

http://www.examiner.com/methodist-in-national/david-and-goliath-for-grown-ups-pa...

http://www.examiner.com/methodist-in-national/david-and-goliath-for-grown-ups-pa...

http://www.examiner.com/methodist-in-national/david-and-goliath-for-grown-ups-pa...

Heavy on religion, but the main points are:

Goliath was six feet seven inches tall

The stone struck him on the greave (lower leg armour) and dropped him, David then killed him with his own sword.

I am not 100% convinced by the greave suggestion but it is interesting.


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