Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Statue of a Slinger? (Read 24955 times)
Aussie
Past Moderator
*
Offline


Joined Nov. 1, 2006  Luke
14:14

Posts: 3265
Melbourne, Australia
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #15 - Dec 8th, 2007 at 10:46pm
 
Thanks for posting that most interesting piece of artwork. Notice the arms, they are almost exactly in the same position as the figure in our slinging.org logo, further supportng the notion that the statuette is a slinger and not a javelin thrower. But what really intrigued me was the legs; the slinger is kneeling on one knee! I had never considered it possible to sling in anything other than standing position previously, which exposes you to enemy. However kneeling behind a shield? So I gave it a quick try out and it works! You can sling virtually unimpeded and yet be almost fully concealed.
Back to top
 

Cranks are little things that make revolutions.&&
 
IP Logged
 
funda_iucunda
Senior Member
****
Offline


Watt den een sin Uhl is
den annern sin Nachtigal.

Posts: 317
Germany (north of Hamburg)
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #16 - Dec 9th, 2007 at 3:58pm
 
The whole motion is very realistic. I tried slinging on my knees too. It is some kind of tricky but possible and with some training you certainly shoot as good as standing on the feet. I suppose that from this position one wouldn't through successfully with a spear, because with that you need much more motion of the arms.

This statue shows the slinger in a position he would prrbably take in the heat of a close range fight where shelter is of the essence. Unfortunately it is not clear for what purpose the statue was made and for what environment it was foreseen. The statue is said to be found in Rome, but the only fact we know about it is that it was bought 1909 from an art or antiques trader. By conclusion from the style it is an Italian piece of the 3. century before Christ but it might be from 1. century before Christ as well.

Encouraged by my success of scanning yesterday I add here a trial of reconstruction of the possible original shape (drawing: Dietmar Kup) which I found in the same article. The shield is a celtic form because the slinger is identified by the "torques" and helmet as celtic. The drawing expresses in a very realistic way how the warrior can prepare the shot behind his shield.

funda iucunda
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #17 - Dec 12th, 2007 at 8:17am
 
the german one is tricky. without the finger positions it's actually impossible to say what he as holding.
But from the body position I'd say it was far more likely to be a spear than a sling. Again the angle of aim is pretty much downward.
Given the position of the rest of the statue's body it would be unlikely to have been a sling.
Given that a spear and shield were a far more common occurence than a sling and a shield - certainly at close range which is what this looks like.

Bu without the hands you can't say one way or the other - but spears were more common than slings.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
funda_iucunda
Senior Member
****
Offline


Watt den een sin Uhl is
den annern sin Nachtigal.

Posts: 317
Germany (north of Hamburg)
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #18 - Dec 12th, 2007 at 4:16pm
 
CA,

the statue held not only a shield in its left hand (what was indicated by remains of bronce and solder) but still holds a biconic shaped object of the size of a sling stone. That was the reason why in the majority of publications regarding this statue is interpreted as a slinger. The position of the sling itself in the reconstuction is a mere assumption. But it would be interesting to get a closer look to the right hand of the original, because the reconstruction shows the release end lying on the hand. So this string might be visible on the hand.
Unfortunately I won't get soon to Berlin but I feel I have to schedule a stop in that museum when I once come along.

funda iucunda

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #19 - Dec 13th, 2007 at 8:26am
 
ah ha - more information.
So possibly evidence that slings were used at close range.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
axon50
Senior Member
****
Offline


Dein Schleuder baut auf
Ihnen.

Posts: 334
nz
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #20 - Dec 13th, 2007 at 11:19pm
 
i think we can safely say that that's not a statue of a slinger. Roll Eyes..... merry christmas!
Back to top
 

Žęr węron ongemang eallra žisra rinca seofone hund manna ža že węron wineserhande, žara ęlc cuše weorpan stan mid lišere and ne misweorpan. &&&&16 ferses 20 heafodwearde Demena bec. (Judges 20:16)
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #21 - Dec 14th, 2007 at 8:16am
 
well given it was holding both a sling cord and a spare glande - I think it probably is :-)
Evidence seems pretty convincing.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
axon50
Senior Member
****
Offline


Dein Schleuder baut auf
Ihnen.

Posts: 334
nz
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #22 - Dec 14th, 2007 at 10:04pm
 
funda_iucunda wrote on Dec 9th, 2007 at 3:58pm:
The whole motion is very realistic. I tried slinging on my knees too. It is some kind of tricky but possible and with some training you certainly shoot as good as standing on the feet. I suppose that from this position one wouldn't through successfully with a spear, because with that you need much more motion of the arms.

This statue shows the slinger in a position he would prrbably take in the heat of a close range fight where shelter is of the essence. Unfortunately it is not clear for what purpose the statue was made and for what environment it was foreseen. The statue is said to be found in Rome, but the only fact we know about it is that it was bought 1909 from an art or antiques trader. By conclusion from the style it is an Italian piece of the 3. century before Christ but it might be from 1. century before Christ as well.

Encouraged by my success of scanning yesterday I add here a trial of reconstruction of the possible original shape (drawing: Dietmar Kup) which I found in the same article. The shield is a celtic form because the slinger is identified by the "torques" and helmet as celtic. The drawing expresses in a very realistic way how the warrior can prepare the shot behind his shield.

funda iucunda

that picture had german at the bottom, i can read it, yay (it was worth making the post about). Grin
Back to top
 

Žęr węron ongemang eallra žisra rinca seofone hund manna ža že węron wineserhande, žara ęlc cuše weorpan stan mid lišere and ne misweorpan. &&&&16 ferses 20 heafodwearde Demena bec. (Judges 20:16)
 
IP Logged
 
axon50
Senior Member
****
Offline


Dein Schleuder baut auf
Ihnen.

Posts: 334
nz
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #23 - Dec 14th, 2007 at 10:07pm
 
it could possibly be a statue of a slinger (the only reason why i'm saying it's possible is because of the position of the finger and thumb on the back of the right hand). but I don't really think it is.
Back to top
 

Žęr węron ongemang eallra žisra rinca seofone hund manna ža že węron wineserhande, žara ęlc cuše weorpan stan mid lišere and ne misweorpan. &&&&16 ferses 20 heafodwearde Demena bec. (Judges 20:16)
 
IP Logged
 
bigkahuna
past-moderator
****
Offline



Posts: 3894
Delaware, USA
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #24 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 6:14am
 
He looks like a spear chucker too!!   You loose your mobility if you are kneeling to sling. That makes you a nice stationary target, shield or no shield. Fire and move, fire and move.
Back to top
 

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
John Walker  
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #25 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 12:29pm
 
just looks like a bloke running to me. the weights on the back foot because he's about to throw.
He's not kneeling or even vaguely in an about-to-kneel position :-)
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
funda_iucunda
Senior Member
****
Offline


Watt den een sin Uhl is
den annern sin Nachtigal.

Posts: 317
Germany (north of Hamburg)
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #26 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 3:56pm
 
axon50,

before you go celebrating christmas, please give more reason for your assumption. The position of the fingers of the right hand is the most vage because the fotos are not very detailed in this point.


bigkahuna,

I thought about a spear too. But a spear would be even more cumbersome to throw from a kneeling position. With a spear it would be rather the use as a lance tossed against the enemy. But fencing with a spear in a kneeling position would be the sure death.
I don't agree that the modern rule of "fire and move" is applicable to ancient warfare. Fighting next to each other in big "blocks" does not allow quick moves. That is only possible on a modern battlefield where there is much space around each combattant, tank etc. The shield would not fit to Fire and move because thats a rule when sufficient shelter is not available. As we know the antique shields where pretty sufficient and worth to carry their weight. If "fire and move" would apply the whole statue wouldn't have made any sense in its time.

funda iucunda
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
axon50
Senior Member
****
Offline


Dein Schleuder baut auf
Ihnen.

Posts: 334
nz
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #27 - Dec 15th, 2007 at 8:43pm
 
okay okay........ the position his fingers are in are exactly the way i hold my sling (but he's holding it much more loosely). it look to me like he's hold the release cord between the finger closest to his thumb and his thumb, and he's about to do an overhand throw at something about 15-25 meters away, that's what it looks like like t' me. Tongue
Back to top
 

Žęr węron ongemang eallra žisra rinca seofone hund manna ža že węron wineserhande, žara ęlc cuše weorpan stan mid lišere and ne misweorpan. &&&&16 ferses 20 heafodwearde Demena bec. (Judges 20:16)
 
IP Logged
 
Ethan
Funditor
****
Offline


so much depends upon a
red wheelbarrow...

Posts: 858
On the edge of a lake...
Gender: male
Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #28 - Dec 16th, 2007 at 9:39am
 
Hmmm... Very interesting pieces of work...

The sketch shows what would appear to be a retention loop around the base of his thumb. I haven't seen one of those before, and it doesn't seem like it would be very practical.  Huh

*modification* Or is it just the fold of his thumb?
Back to top
 

"Young men go to war. Sometimes because they have to, sometimes because they want to. Always, they feel they are supposed to. This comes from the sad, layered stories of life, which over the centuries have seen courage confused with picking up arms, and cowardice confused with putting them down."&&--Mitch Albom, The Five People you meet in Heaven
WWW Ethan Sithapprentice21  
IP Logged
 
big_sling_gland
Ex Member


Re: Statue of a Slinger?
Reply #29 - Dec 17th, 2007 at 9:14am
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Nov 28th, 2007 at 12:07pm:
nope look at the back hand - it's grasping a shaft not a sling.
definitely some sort of spear.

I think that it is a sling because I`ve seen a illistration that caught my eye after reading this. it looks like a slinger from a side view that is holding a sling that looks like a leghthend i-bolt
(a small metal shaft with a loop at the end) the way that the statue is holding the sling.And if altay is correct the may have just worn away take a look Shocked
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Chris, Mauro Fiorentini, Rat Man, Masiakasaurus, Curious Aardvark, Bill Skinner, David Morningstar)