Slinging.org Forum

smgjerald Descens Offline Ancient weaponry rules:-) Posts: 114 Redneck country,Norway:-D Gender:	stonebow Jul 15^th, 2007 at 11:02am made a few crossbows,but suddenly decided to attempt making a stone bow. Found a few diagrams online,and have made a reasonably good working sketch.will post pictures in the near future. Anyone have any experience in making one?Ideas are welcome
Back to top	"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-) IP Logged

Bikewer Interfector Viris Spurii Offline I love Slinging.org! Posts: 1627 St. Louis, Mo Gender:	Re: stonebow Reply #1 - Jul 15^th, 2007 at 8:18pm I'm just starting to make a crossbow, and I've seen many illustrations of stonebows over the years. Most seem to have a design where the stock is greatly relieved instead of having a track for a bolt. Here's a site I found that has some illustrations: http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/stonebow/about-sbow.html
Back to top	IP Logged

english Ex Member	Re: stonebow Reply #2 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 6:49am I've made a couple of them in the past. I posted some threads on it ages ago. They're tricky because the mechanism is difficult, especially if you're like me and try to just use wood. I think that with a metal mechanism, they'd be quite easy to make.
Back to top	IP Logged

smgjerald

Descens

Offline

Ancient weaponry rules:-)

Posts: 114
Redneck country,Norway:-D
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #3 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 9:36am

made a version with rubberbands a week ago,to experiment with different types of trigger mechanisms and think I found a suitable one.

Thanks for the link,got some new ideas and one of the mysteries of the stonebow was revealed to me(imagine a single pillar of light shining down upon me:-)
namely how the bullet remained in the pouch!

Started on the stock, will make it curve down(italian style stonebow).

my biggest concern is the dryfire effect..english,since you have made a couple of these,what your experience with that?

Thanks to both of you Grin

Back to top

"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-)

IP Logged

english

Ex Member

Re: stonebow
Reply #4 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 10:37am

Quote:

english,since you have made a couple of these,what your experience with that?

Bad. I made a full power one with a strong crossbow prod (about 80 pounds) and it broke quickly (a couple of months, I had it for), because the shot was too light. It followed the string badly before it broke as well. I went down to a very light prod, about 30 pounds, with the next one and that seems fine. I haven't used it for a while, but I'm sure it still works. Good fun, target shooting with it. With a small pebble, it can pierce paper (doesn't go right through - just smacks a hole into it), but doesn't really even dent wood much. I was experimenting with them, really. And the larger and more powerful one really was too powerful. It was downright dangerous, really.

Another thing to watch out for is that the pouch is in the dead centre of the string. You have to do that with crossbows too, but with pellet bows it's more noticeable, because the pellet has no groove to follow. And the prod has to be angled slightly upward, so that the string remains above the body of the crossbow after the shot, so that the pebble doesn't strike the wood. When I think about it, they're quite tricky weapons.

I'm going to try to find a pellet bow in Taiwan if I can. I was going to look in some markets when I was in China, but I didn't have the time and didn't know where to begin. But Chinese pellet crossbows look pretty snazzy, and I'll have plenty of time to look in Taiwan.

Back to top

IP Logged

smgjerald

Descens

Offline

Ancient weaponry rules:-)

Posts: 114
Redneck country,Norway:-D
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #5 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 10:54am

yeah,was as I feared then..wow,with an 80 pound prod one would need one serious pellet..maybe use lead shot? Have a prod,I guess in the area of 40-50 pounds,I am going to back it with leather as an extra precaution,have experienced a prod break once and do not want to experience that again,damn thats dangerous...

Thank you,nice of you to give me so much advice,really intrigued with the design of the stonebows,our forfathers were quite innovative Wink

main reason for making this is I would like a weapon the whole family can shoot for fun,and I consider airguns booooring Grin

never seen a chinese stonebow,time to google I guess Tongue

Back to top

"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-)

IP Logged

Bikewer

Interfector Viris Spurii

Offline

I love Slinging.org!

Posts: 1627
St. Louis, Mo
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #6 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 12:32pm

I'm attempting to make a wooden bow, mostly because it's what I have on hand. I've got a piece of red oak that I've used for two longbows already.

It's not looking promising.... I have tillered the thing down to about 45 pounds at a mere 10" of draw, and it's starting to "stack" rather badly. Doesn't want to bend any more.
Also exhibiting quite a bit of follow.... Still, I may go ahead and use it just to refine the trigger mechanism.

I'll be using the rotating "nut" design, which I'm going to fabricate from 1 1/2" aluminum rod stock. This should provide a good, stout mechanism if I need to upgrade the "prod".
There's always auto leaf springs....

Back to top

IP Logged

smgjerald Descens Offline Ancient weaponry rules:-) Posts: 114 Redneck country,Norway:-D Gender:	Re: stonebow Reply #7 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 1:05pm the rotating nut mechanism is by far the best solution,safe and durable. but can be a bitch to design properly is the wooden bow what you are planning to use on the crossbow? If you use a auto spring I seriously advice you to back it for safety reasons,you wouldn`t believe the power released if a prod breaks..
Back to top	"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-) IP Logged

english

Ex Member

Re: stonebow
Reply #8 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 2:18pm

Quote:

If you use a auto spring I seriously advice you to back it for safety reasons,you wouldn`t believe the power released if a prod breaks..

Agreed. Even 10 inches of draw will be quite a lot of power.
Make sure with the rotating nut that the stock can support the power and that the nut doesn't just rip through it. I had that happen with a piece of ash once (that was my eureka moment - must reinforce all crossbow stocks at the nut), so I guess it could happen to most hardwoods.

Quote:

yeah,was as I feared then..wow,with an 80 pound prod one would need one serious pellet..maybe use lead shot?

I don't think even that would work that well. I used pretty big, heavy shot with it, and it still went nuts. I'd say that keeping the weight low is the first consideration of pellet bow manufacture. You're only trying to power something about the size of a fingernail, so... I've found that I actually like regular stone bows (rather than stone crossbows) quite a bit. They're frustrating, and I've shot myself in the hand a couple of times, but they're great when you have the knack. Again, the Chinese made great ones - you can find some examples on the internet, some beautiful ones. And there are some neat stories about them - about rich philanthropists shooting gold shot into poor areas so children would be able to buy food and not starve, that kind of thing. And again, if you want to make one (I can go into detail about them if you like - they're one of my favourite weapons), make sure you back it. I cheated and used nylon on the back of my last one, but you could use whatever. Ash at 45 pounds, backed with nylon, recurved - it can go right through a coke can, smash a bottle.

Back to top

IP Logged

english

Ex Member

Re: stonebow
Reply #9 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 2:26pm

Quote:

I have tillered the thing down to about 45 pounds at a mere 10" of draw, and it's starting to "stack" rather badly.

How long is it, and what's the profile? For ten inches, a flat profile at about 30 inches would be about perfect. You can have a bow drawing just under 100 pounds and it can work reasonably well at that length and draw. If it's much shorter or D-section, make the draw shorter - I think that's about all you can do if it starts to stack badly, unless you have the opportunity to re-tiller it and think you can do a good job. Red oak should be pretty durable, I'd think, but every wood has a limit.

Back to top

IP Logged

smgjerald

Descens

Offline

Ancient weaponry rules:-)

Posts: 114
Redneck country,Norway:-D
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #10 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 3:46pm

have actually heard very little about "regular" stone bows,did a google search,but found nothing.. Would be very interested to hear about the design and construction of the stonebow!!Have no idea how to make one so would be great if you can go into detail
Have to make one of those Cheesy

As for the rotating nut,I quite agree when you mention the ripping,especially if the nut is to small. I experienced that it I made it a bit to large(bit smaller than the bottom of a soda can) It was a)easier to construct and b)more durable because of a greater diameter.Used a tempered bolt that went through the crossbow and locked it in place.

Back to top

"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-)

IP Logged

english

Ex Member

Re: stonebow
Reply #11 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 5:28pm

Basically, a stone bow is like a stone crossbow, but you draw the bow by hand like, well, a bow. A light-weight bow (you have to do a pinch draw and release, so it can't be high draw-weight, and you wouldn't want a high draw-weight anyway), a string with a pouch, and that's it really. It's sort of like an elastic slingshot, but primitive. The important difference between stonebow and arrow-bow is the difficulty of drawing the stone bow. You have to rotate your bow-hand wrist out slightly and maintain that sideways pressure as you draw, so that when you release, the bow automatically twists to one side so that the pellet passes by without striking the bow. It's quite a difficult skill.
Here's a short bit about pellet bows on ATARN: http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_jun99.htm
And here's another, which is mostly about pellet bows: http://www.atarn.org/chinese/pek_letr.htm

They're good fun, and really ancient. Chinese oracle bones (the oldest form of script known in China, from the Shang dynasty) show a definite distinction between a pellet bow and a bow for arrows, the Sumerian word for bows was a composite of "branch" and "stone", and some Chinese myths say that the pellet bow pre-dated the arrow-bow, the stone bow being used by a "filial son" who defended his father's burial chamber from animals wanting to eat the corpse. The concept is almost certainly not true, because it's not a really logical idea (stones are much harder to shoot, and stone bows aren't commonly found across the world), but it at least shows that they had some importance.

Back to top

IP Logged

smgjerald

Descens

Offline

Ancient weaponry rules:-)

Posts: 114
Redneck country,Norway:-D
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #12 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 5:55pm

thanks alot! Think I´ll try that next,put the stonecrossbow on hold and attempt the stonebow first,maybe it will even give me an idea or two for the crossbow!
Have to check what materials I have lying around..I own a piece of forest so have a rather unlimited supply of wood Wink

just decided to wear my knights gauntlet when I learn to shoot the thing Grin

Hmm..I have so many projects going on, isn´t enough hours in a day,I need a time machine..

Fun that the weapon has such an interesting story,wants me want to make it even more.

Back to top

"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-)

IP Logged

Bikewer Interfector Viris Spurii Offline I love Slinging.org! Posts: 1627 St. Louis, Mo Gender:	Re: stonebow Reply #13 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 7:44pm This bow I'm working on is 30" long, with "peg" nocks. It's backed with silk; even at this draw weight I don't want to get whacked if it lets go! I see one manufacturer of steel prods sells them with a Kevlar cover for safety's sake. I plan to reinforce the pivot area with pieces of sheet steel.
Back to top	IP Logged

smgjerald

Descens

Offline

Ancient weaponry rules:-)

Posts: 114
Redneck country,Norway:-D
Gender: male

Re: stonebow
Reply #14 - Jul 16^th, 2007 at 8:44pm

sounds great,better safe than sorry as my dad used to say Wink

I may be nagging about safety all over this forum,but this is why:
Love crossbows,but my desire to shot them are somewhat hampered by the fact that I am terrified of another break. Was showing my 3 year old son how accurate I was(he loves to watch me sling etc) when the break occured. I am so relieved I always demand he stand at a safe distance or I have no doubt it could have seriously hurt him..
I have seen a guy accidentaly shoot a friend on the firing range and seriously hurting him..
I am somewhat marked so please bare over with me if you think I take safety too seriously Embarrassed

Back to top

"What the hell are you doing now?"my dad everytime he came home and witnessed my siege weapon projects,the most patient man who ever lived:-)

IP Logged