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Honest Accuracy (Read 8230 times)
lupis
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Honest Accuracy
Nov 11th, 2006 at 4:11pm
 
I have read on this topic lots and, being new, I am not afraid to ask everybody once again...In all honesty how accurate can I expect to be with good practice? I know that glandes properly made will be more accurate than rocks I pick up, and that consistent weight will make (more) consistent accuracy.

I figure that the whole point of a sling would be to be able to consistently hit a man sized target with a projectile at least twice as far away as I could throw it by hand. I have practiced a lot over the summer, and was even making projectiles from cement mortar, but I cannot seem to consistently hit the broad side of a barn. I have been using an overhead (helicopter?) throw, but I think I need to fool around with style, what does everybody suggest?

The way Matthias was throwing in his whip/crack/sling video looked like it might go well with accuracy.

Thanks
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #1 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 4:25pm
 

This is perhaps the paramount question in our sport.  It is only honestly answered by the amount of devotion to regular practice you are willing to put in to it. 

Speaking for myself alone, I can relate that my accuracy is largely determined by how recently I've put time in....and how warmed up I am.  I can go out and sling at a watermelon sized target at 20 yards with no warm up, not having slung in days and look like a rank amateur for up to 5 minutes time.  After that, I'm warmed up and will usually hit this target 3 to 5 times out of ten with 3 or 4 near misses. 

There was a time in my youth when I was more consistent than this.....I did a sling demo tape in the eighties and if I can hunt it down, I will digitize it.  Then you will take heart in what can be accomplished with regular practice!


TS
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #2 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 5:24pm
 
Lupis,

I believe that the old stories about slinging accuracy, are true.  But it takes time to get that accurate.  I have been slinging for about two years, and I think in another two or three years I may achieve consistent accuracy.  I hit what I aim at once in a while, and I am near where I aimed at least half the time.  I still have a lot of wild shots, especially if I am trying for distance or power.  I do better if I relax and don't push it.

All of us are different, but I suspect that one summer is not enough time for you to achieve what you want.  I'm not trying to discourage you, just to be realistic.

Go read
L.W. Forsyth's article on the Apache sling
, and pay attention to his description of how that old gentleman slung.  The Apache grandfather had been using a sling his entire life, and he was good at it.  I don't mean it took him his whole life to get good, I mean that at seventy years of age he was STILL good enough to hit a target less than an inch thick (the size of those telephone pole spikes), thirty yards away.  Oh, and he used rocks that he picked up as he went, not standardized ammo.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #3 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 6:16pm
 
I would make for a sad slingsman at 70 I'm a thinkin!


I surmise that the kind of accuracy recounted by Forsyth as well as the Biblical record of the left handed slingers who apparently were hair splitters, involved very manageable speeds rarely over 90mph....

Which is still quite formidable considering the weight of their ammo.  If one is willing to settle for such humble speeds (relative to distance slinging) one is able to fully maximize his accuracy potential.


TS



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« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2006 at 7:19pm by Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua »  

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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #4 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 7:25pm
 
I think you have to honestly love this sport to get good at it. Think of it like this. a major league baseball pitcher has to really love throwing a ball accurately to be as good as they are. They throw more accurately than anyone, they just love it enough to practice until it becomes natural. If you love it practice
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #5 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 7:43pm
 
Thanks for the advice, warming up properly seems to definitely help me for sure. I know that proper practice will help. I just wanted to know if I am in the ballpark or if I was way off and need to change tracks entirely.

Do you (everybody) have a different style of slinging depending on if you are trying for distance rather than accuracy? (By style I mean a totally different throw)
I started off by mainly being wowed by the distance, but find that accuracy is more enticing now that I can throw far enough to amuse myself.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #6 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 9:27pm
 
I think there're two points that need to be considered when looking at the accuracy of the sling.

The vast majority of slingers will never get to the point where they can hit that 1" point at 30 yards, the same way the vast majority of baseball pitchers will ever achieve the accuracy of a MLB Hall-of-Famer.  It just isn't in everyones capability.  I doubt that it's in mine.

However, I doubt that the sling was often used as a combat weapon like the spear or gun was/is; that is, where a single target is selected and picked off readily.

Slings seem to have been the original catapult or canon.  They enabled ranged attacks that were deadly for whatever was hit, but that whatever wasn't some unlucky fellow who got picked out of the group by choice.

It was more of a "natural selection" sort of thing.

I think it'd be correct  to believe that a group of slingers tossing rocks at an advancing formation wouldn't need to pick their targets.  Instead, with decent accuracy, they'd be able to send rocks or lead falling on them from a long distance.  I don't know about you, but I can easily hit a formation of 30 advancing men at 100 to 150 yards, but it'd be hard pressed to hit a single man at half that distance.

Also, I think the overhead method simply isn't the best for accuracy.  Too much relies upon where you release.  It's just too easy to be way to the left or way to the right.

This is why I like the overhand or figure 8 method for accuracy.  Basically, you're just trying to adjust for distance here.  Thow straight ahead darn near every time, and once you get ability to release properly for a target at 30 yards, you can start increasing and decreasing distances.

With the overhead method, you're trying to find the right angle for two dimensions; You need to choose how high to launch, and how much left or right.   Can some people get decently good with it quickly? I'm sure they can; I could do it decently very quickly myself.

What I couldn't do was be very *GOOD* with it even after lots of practice.  I'd say there's a steep learning curve at first, followed by a very shallow one.

NOTE: A steep learning curve- despite common phrasing- means that you're learning it quickly, unless you improperly put time on the vertical axis.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 12:47pm
 
Good point, the two axis thing. I am definitely going to have to try out an overhand method or two. The figure 8 seems to be complicated, but from what people are saying worthwhile to use...
At the moment I am quite happy with my ability to hit a group of 30 men advancing from about 150 meters away, woe be to them that do so Wink
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #8 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 1:10pm
 
find a style your comfortable with and practice and you can be very accurate
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #9 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 1:43pm
 
I find that the regular baseball throw is really good for <100 feet. For me it goes to the left a lot, but at least it is predictable.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #10 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 2:43pm
 
The following is opinion, I'm no expert, but it would be tedious to state that after every sentence so I'll get it over with here.  All the following is opinion.

It is practice.  That is putting it mildly being obsessive might give a better idea.  But there are definitely some things one can do to make the process quicker.and also things one should not do or they will slow you down.  I've noticed this because I have taught a few including myself.  I think the body learns some things on a different level to the mind, think of martial arts in your first couple of months or touch typing.  Someone goes to tickle you, you know it's only playful but whoosh the block happens.  Or if when leaning to touch-type, which can be perfected in a few days ( slowly anyway ), you let yourself look at the keys the habit of looking will be slowing you down for months or even years.  Ask a touch typist where a particular key is and watch the fingers, they will have to consult body memory because that is where the knowlege lives.  Same with slinging I think.

As you've noticed the first big thrill of slinging is the range and power of it.  Standing by a lake or the sea and sending stones way way further than you could throw them, the buzz of rough rocks, that glorious double sound when the sling cracks and the sound of a hard impact follows it.   All that glamorous stuff.  It's great but if when starting one focuses on it too much, and who doesn't,  it can make things difficult later. 

If one has been doing the big stuff a lot for a while then one  goes for targets at say your own height there will be a tendency to shoot high because the body has got into the roughly 45 habit.  I think you're probably past that bit but if it happened than you remember an example of body memory.  The same thing can happen with a favoured target range, if for example it is on the side of a hill with nice target but a tree to the left you have to be careful of not rebounding from that is what your body will learn, including being shy of the tree to the left even when it isn't there because you're slinging somewhere else.  It can be hard to overwrite bad habits.  This happened to me with a different sport, I learned table tennis in an attic, it took a long time to get a proper forehand loop as my arm was still avoiding that attic wall.

So I'd recommend mixing up where you sling, it's best to learn on level but also do a little on slopes too.  If you can go for walks where you can just pick targets as you go, a rock, a stump, whatever..  I think that this is better in the long run than some perfect place that one always goes.  I'm not sure that there is a "right style" for everything so mix that too, but only a little,  favour one of them until you get the hang of it before favouring another. When you've got a few under your belt,  if you do the walking thing let the place and target suggest the technique,  Apache when you're knee deep in under growth or side arm for a cross bar for example.  That will help to keep the previous favourites fresh even though most of the time you focus on the current one. You can get better advice on particular techniques elsewhere in this site than any I can give ( have you seen Tints video?)

I discovered something rather strange by mistake which may help.  A few months ago I pulled a muscle in my shoulder and so couldn't sling.  I went up into the hills anyway just for the sake of being out.  I was sitting behind a tree totally failing to make a  down draft gasifier stove I'd made out of a tin can work and listening to my mate sling.  I just couldn't take it, I even had a new prototype sling in my bag, so I had a go left handed which I'm not.  Instantly my other shoulder felt a bit better ( not enough to sling with but very noticeable ) and I even got a couple of  hits.  So for the couple of weeks my right was out of action I slung left handed.  When my right shoulder recovered I was better at slinging with the right than I had been before the injury..  I've no idea why it worked but now I sling a few with my left just to warm up.  It seems to help with the right.  Maybe it's a balance thing like yoga.

There are also a couple of exercises which help.  This one can only be done with an underhand delivery but is the best I know to improve accuracy.  Stand quite close to a tree, three yards is enough. Gently sling a rock at it, very gently, no wind up,  about as hard as you'd throw a ball for a toddler to catch, just enough.  Do two more.  Take a step backwards and repeat with just enough power to compensate for the step.  Keep doing this, you will be amazed how far you can go and still hit ( touch would be a better word ).  At the longest range where you are confident of three out of three stop retreating and begin to slowly increase the power of the hit.  As this is what I'd call a body memory exercise should misses start to creep in stop instantly.  Go back a few stages in the process and restart from there.  Don't imprint  mistakes.  You can adapt this exercise to other slinging styles but obviously one needs to start with the minimum power posable with each so have to miss out the early stages.  There are various targeting games which help inside this exercise, like one hit at a low part,  one at a middle part,  and one at a high part.  The three out of three range will increase with practice.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #11 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 7:14pm
 
I think you can be as accuratte as you can throw
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 7:49pm
 
Stringman,

You have some good ideas there!  I have noticed the same thing; I expressed it as "my mind gets in the way of my reflexes."  My first couple of throws are usually pretty good, then it goes downhill from there because my mind is starting to suggest improvements.
I like your underhand accuracy idea.  I'll try it, and see how much I improve.  Thanks!
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #13 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 10:31pm
 
Thanks Stringman, and everybody!
After reading Stringmans post I thought how strange it is that we divide our lives up into little pieces. This part is work, this part is home, this part is duty etc.
I teach physical skills for a living and had almost completely separated it (work) from my interest in slinging. I had ignored a lot of the concepts I use to teach others a new physical skill, and Stringman brought this to light for me.

Had I known this forum would have so many friendly and honestly smart people on it I would have signed up months ago, instead of lurking for so long.

If anybody is lurking and reading this you should sign up and join the discussion(s). You get more out of it that way.
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Re: Honest Accuracy
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2006 at 4:00pm
 
Well, I have a tip to improve accuracy

If you are new to Slinging and still switching between styles, you could best Sling in a way your used to throw other things (for instance basebal or an other sport).

When I started Slinging I was using my Riata pretty much for my whole life. So I started Slinging the way I always had used my Riata(=lasso) (2 rotations overhead). I got fairly good accuracy instantly. I went adjusting my style from there.

This might work also for other thrown sports.

I hope this helps.

Rodrieguez
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« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2006 at 10:09am by Rodrieguez »  
 
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