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Measure your speed (Read 16880 times)
wanderer
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #45 - Nov 11th, 2006 at 4:36pm
 
Looking at stringman's numbers..

With some gross approximations:
If flight is parabolic, time of flight is related to initial vertical velocity by Tt = 2v/g (usual kind of text book symbols Smiley ) - also measured to when projectile is down to same height as it was launched at.

For Tt=3.28s that gives v=16.08m/s. If horizontal velocity u=19.4m/s then the initial speed was about 25.2m/s. I'm not sure given the uncertainty of the range of the throw there is much more to say Smiley. Can't see that air resistance will affect this much compared with the uncertainties in the measurements.

If I'm out with this, somone jump on it Wink.
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #46 - Nov 12th, 2006 at 6:16am
 
Wow wanderer, that's nice the third dimension already !! and some idea of a speed and velocity change.  I don't have the knowlage to judge it but like the idea lot.  If we can get all that from a scrap of video .......

The numbers in the example were not intended to be seem as some sort of result.  I only used them in order to work through the method to make it clearer, do I hear laughter, and to give. people some data to play with.  I don't even know if the method is ok, is it?  We need a lot more numbers and samples before we have any idea what the margin of error is.  The biggest error is in determining when the image of the splash gets to the camera as frame rate forces a subjective guess.  As it is subjective the safest way is to have several different peoples interpretations.

As wanderer points out there is another known factor, gravity, so it is not only for the hypothetical flat line.  Would I be right in thinking that if the energy lost climbing is equal to the energy gained falling we may have a way of approximating the high point from time?  Would this be anywhere near the mid point? Maybe we could use this as an easy way to get tech stuffs 'trajectory midpoint listener'   Does the splash method, when one can't think of a term make it up, work?  We could test it using visual triangulation, maybe even throw more than one rock on the same cast.  If we can get even half decent trajectory profiles this way it will be very useful when we start on the next stage and are trying to place the origin of individual sound waves in time and space.  Even though this applies to longer casts a short range target being hit hard is only something in the way of a gland that wanted to go further so we may have something which eliminates the need for a third, probably high, mic to get curve ( 3d stage )  later on.
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wanderer
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #47 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 8:52am
 
So, I thought I'd post some experiences with this stuff.

I had to do the experiment in my apartment, because the weather is lousy. However, the ceilings are high enough:). I recorded the sound straight on to my laptop, which has (somewhere Embarrassed) a built in microphone.

I tried the original plan (sling through two pieces of newspaper about a yard apart, record with a single microphone), and found I couldn't unravel the sounds from the two because of echos in the room until I moved the newspapers further apart.

It would probably help to be able to set the recording level (I didn't).

I tried to dull the noise of the impacts a little by damping the newspaper, and that helped a little.

It's easy to measure the time of the impact to about 0.001s or less, which gives pretty good precision since that corresponds to only 4cm for a 40m/s shot. Over a distance of 1m that would give at most 10% error in the results, I think it is rather less.

The results told me that my 'muzzle velocity' is rather higher than I had thought, at least. However, the results are clear enough that I believe them.

Since I was inside, I was slinging light weight slugs, so air resistance would have had more of an effect than I would like. They still penetrated the paper very easily Smiley.

I was 'guestimating' my speeds before from how far I could sling, and I realize now that things like air resistance (as well as having to sling 'earlier' in the action) make that pretty lousy.

Also tried this with a blowgun. There the experiment is easy with just one target (don't need newspaper etc.) 'cos you can see the pop as the slug comes out of the end of the tube.

As far as the software, I was using a package called Snack in a language called Tcl. I don't necessarily recommend it, it just happened to be what I had lying around.

So, the basic idea works Grin.
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Mordechaj
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #48 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 10:55am
 
nice, big post.

nicely put paragraphs, easy to read.


results nowhere to be found.



man, what's the point of just telling us: it woked! , and not telling us the estimated speed?
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wanderer
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #49 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 3:37pm
 
Mordechaj wrote on Dec 2nd, 2006 at 10:55am:
results nowhere to be found.



man, what's the point of just telling us: it woked! , and not telling us the estimated speed?


Well, because the results depend on the slinger, and you don't know me! The idea is that it isn't that hard for people to measure their own speed - which might be good if you're working at your technique.

However, since you insist - for five runs that I could get numbers out of the average was 42m/s, the highest about 46m/s. That was with a figure-8 kind of style. I would guess probably I'm on the slower side of average (I am certainly on the older side of average;) ) for this forum.






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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #50 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 5:56pm
 
tnx. not for bragging purpouses, but just for an idea about what general speed are we talking to, and to see how larde differences do we have here.
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #51 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 7:04pm
 
Mordechaj wrote on Dec 2nd, 2006 at 5:56pm:
tnx. not for bragging purpouses, but just for an idea about what general speed are we talking to, and to see how larde differences do we have here.


Thanks, Mordechaj Smiley.

It was exactly because I didn't want some kind of bragging contest that I didn't post the numbers the first time. I expect there are many here who would exceed these speeds by a significant amount, and it would be real interesting to gather some figures, like you say.
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #52 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 11:04pm
 
I don't want to bring you guys down but numbers and equations don't really show what a person can do with one. For example when someone asks questions about slinging, I seem to lose there interest a lot faster when trying to explain the speed and range of the weapon in terms of feet per second. They always find it easier to uderstand when I say that I can easily clear a football field. Or how I can cut off inch round tree branches at forty yards. We should start posting images of the targets we use and the damage done to them. That would be the easiest thing to understand. The only problem is that we would all have to admit how long we slung stones at that target before we actually hit it.  Grin Thats the problem, speed, power and distance are nothing but fun without accuarcy.
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #53 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 9:17am
 
Nice Wanderer.  I'm still on this one but the weather has been against our using the electrics.  We have had several occasions on which we have been able to use the lake and have fired from the only place sheltered enough to film.  We even got the first chance we have ever had to shoot up and not across it.  The visual range of the camera is very limited, despite what the viewfinder tells us as soon as one goes beyond, I don't know actully but only two or three times the splash I used before the camera doesn't pick it up.  I have trimmed several avi's down to frame before start of splash image to splash sound but am not sure if it is ok to attach them ( quote from below "Allowed file types: jpg jpeg gif png swf zip" ) I could zip them but if compression messes up the timeing that rather defeats the object of posting.  As avi's they are big, the longer casts, even trimmed to splash, push or exceed the 5mg limit. That doesn't really matter the image/splash thing is only a side frill anyway but it would have been a handy additional tool..   The .wav files which I stripped from them with virtual dub are small enough for the whole clip.  If wavs are ok ( they aren't mentioned as allowed file types either ) we should have no problem posting those.  I still haven't had a chance to try the sound glands but have found some rocks which buzz all the way, long narrow oblongs, best with a chisel type edge on one long side.  They are very inaccurate and a tad slow but I have some wavs of them, only from one mic due to weather so far but there is hope for a clear day.
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Willeke
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Re: Measure your speed
Reply #54 - Dec 5th, 2006 at 12:17pm
 
The way to post video's is still to send them to Chris at <info@slinging.org>
Maybe if the files are rather big, it might be better to contact Chris before sending.
When Chris has uploaded them to the site you can use the url he will give you to make a link in your post.

If you do not want to wait that long you can also use a free video site, like youtube, but remember that those video's disappear after a while. So better send to Chris anyway.

Willeke
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