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Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome) (Read 8594 times)
southpaw
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #15 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 5:56pm
 
Willeke,
Yes, I can braid hair, but for the pouches, I wanted to make one like Jeff holt's, but Where do you put the third string???
(http://www.slinging.org/13.html) Also, I'd like to make a braided pouch that is nice and wide, but the braided strings would be to fat to my liking.  Undecided
(thanks for the advice, though. Smiley)


It seems a lot of people make braided slings. How well do they hold in the weather?? How durable are they??
Because, if one string breaks, doesn't the whole sling unravel?


8)
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #16 - Oct 4th, 2006 at 6:09pm
 
i use a braided sling, and have used the same sling almost since i started roughly 6 months ago.  it is holding up great, except that i have a teensy tiny bit of wear on the leather of the pouch (i use an apache style sling) and the cords are a little dirty from my mitts and my pocket.  it is really nice and worn though, made from white nylon mason's line.

people have had the same braided slings for years.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #17 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 1:35am
 
Jeff is using 4 strands to braid his cords, they go 2 by 2 through the pouch.
You can either learn to braid with 4, (the round braid of 4 gives a flexible braid that does not twist,) feed the ends two on one side and one on the other, or tie off one end at the pouch and tie it on at the other end.

Willeke
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #18 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 10:47am
 
Southpaw,

For your convenience, here are
instructions for the round 4-strand braid
written by Willeke.

Another thing you can do, is use the 3-strand braid but use several thin cords per strand.  See
Dan Bollinger's article
for an example of this.  If you start with six cords, like Dan, then after you divide the cords for the pouch you just thread the cords through your leather pouch as Jeff Holt shows.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #19 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 12:28pm
 
leather bootlaces work quite well - although after a year or so mine snapped.

If you have a fairly short sling then figure of 8 is next to useless, also much harder than any other method.

I use paracord and leather. My current tennis ball sling (larger pouch with each corner pinched and glued to form a shallow pouch) also has reinforced holes for cord attachment (long piece of leather doubled over at each end. Hole punched with belt hole puncher and the cord is doubled into a loop and fed through the holes and then feed the cord through the loop.)
Attaching the pouch with loops rather than knots gives a much better hold on the pouch and keeps the pouch in the correct orientation when slinging. Plus it's easier.
[img]http://members.aol.com/routeraardvark/sling.jpg[/img]

This sling will also sling pretty big rocks (hence the reinforcing). It's 26 inches and way too short for figure of eight.

The tennis ball got very wet yesterday (combination of dog slobber and being dropped in a puddle - hence the somewhat disreputable appearance of the sling :-)
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #20 - Oct 5th, 2006 at 11:24pm
 
Hey, thanks for the help. Smiley

Dale: would you know of any instruction for a rather wide braided pouch? The one in your link had thin braids...wouldn't the pouch be prone to dropping the rocks??(thanks for the earlier help and links, though.)

C-ardvaark: I like your sling. Where'd you get the leather from??

Thanks,

8)
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #21 - Oct 6th, 2006 at 7:05pm
 
Southpaw,

My very first sling was made to Bollinger's instructions, and I used it strictly for tennis balls.  It does not drop those.  I did try it with rocks, a couple of times, and could have killed myself if I had been a bit more accurate.  Not quite straight up, which was a very good thing.  I did not sling rocks again until I could sling better.

For a wider pouch, you do not braid it, you weave it.  Braid the retained cord, weave the pouch, and braid the release cord.

Barak Bruard has some
very good instructions with lots and lots of pictures
, about how to do this.  You can do the braiding much more simply than he did, he was making a sling with two colors of string and putting a pattern in the cords.

The important part of making a wider split pouch, is to work more strings into the cord as you get near the pouch.  Then you stop braiding, gather the strings into two bunches, and weave another string between them for a small distance (an inch or a little under), then divide each bunch in two and weave another inch, then divide the four bunches in two and weave each side independently, then gather the bunches on the other side in the reverse of the dividing.  Barak's pictures are much better than my description, so go look at his site.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #22 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:09pm
 
HOLY COW!!! I'm sooo sorry. I hadn't been floating around slinging.org for a few weeks. I'm terribly sorry I haven't responded until now. I've been pursuing other  primitive skills with mixed success:

http://survival.com/IVB/index.php?s=ec363c14b4f5ad28f89f55db004ec6dd&showtopic=9...

To answer your question I use parachute cord for the strings and just plain old leather for the pouch.


I had a thread on here somewhere with instructions on how I built my sling. I'll do a search for it.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #23 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:14pm
 
well, I couldn't find it so I'll attempt a repost. I saved it as a doc on my computer.

I've had many requests for the instructions on how I make my slings. Unfortunately I don't have my camera handy here at work so I'm gonna do my best to draw the instructions and use some old photos. Also, my offer still stands if you want me to construct a sling for you.


The key parts of the sling are the 1. Retention cord, 2. Release cord, and the 3. Pouch.

...

1. Retention Cord: This is the cord that terminates in a loop that goes around your middle finger. Some people prefer a different finger or even their wrist but I've found the middle finger to work fine and is the standard I use. The pupose of this cord is to keep the sling attatched to your hand when you release it during a throw. I make the retention cord of parachute cord, it is durable, light, flexible, and easy to stich to the other sling components. I discourage making the loop with a knot that can slip. After a few throws it will really tighten down on your finger. I've had to cut loops made like this off of my finger before. Use a bowline or better yet, sew the loop in place. Sewing is the most secure and least bulky option.

2. Release Cord: This cord takes the most abuse of all the sling components. That's because it has a tendency to wrap on bushes, hit the ground, or occasionally tangle with the projectile upon release. Like the Retention Cord I make it of parachute cord. I don't like ending the release cord with a knot. The reason for this is that the knot tends to get really hard as it tightens with use and becomes uncomfortable not to mention hard to grip. Instead I cut a leather tab with a hole on both ends, fold it in half, and thread the release cord through it securing it with a good stitch. A great pre-made leather tab, in fact what gave me the idea, is the leather pouch from wristrocket style slingshots. When the bands wore out I'd keep the pouch and use it for my sling. The leather provides an easy to grip surface that won't give you blisters with repeated use.

3. Pouch: This is the most critical part of the sling. If made improperly it won't hold your projectiles securely or it'll hold it too well and possibly end your ability to procreate.  I make the sling out of leather. Boot leather works well, boots can be found at second hand stores for a few bucks, or I just get buy the leather from craft stores. I'm lucky enough to have a leather factory outlet near by that sells scrap leather by the pound. You want the leather to be tough but not to thick and flexible but not too stretchy. Again, old boots usually have just the right leather thickness. Some people like to have a split pouch, or they work the leather into a cup shape. I've found that unnecessary if you attach the cords the way I'm going to show you.  Below is a template for the pouch shape I use.

...

The image dimensions should be 8 inches wide and 3.5 inches tall at 75 DPI. with these setting it will print out to the proper size.




Construction:

First thing I do is cut out the pouch and the leather for the release tab if I don't have any old slingshot pouches.

Then I get my needle and thread handy. Use a heavy upholstry thread, artificial sinew, or heavy waxed nylon for your thread. The needles I like to use are some quilting ones I found at Joannes. I figure most everyone on here is pretty crafty and could figure out what works best for them.

Then I cut two lengths of parachute cord. Cut more than you need. Remember that the length of the sling will be at least as long as your arm so be generous in the length of the cords until you get a little more familiar with how much cord it takes to make slings for yourself. Nothing worse than stitching it all together to realize you don't have enough cord. Making the retention loop and attatching the release tab are the LAST steps in making the sling.

I then tie an overhand knot on one end of both cords. I trim up the excess and melt it down into the knot.

Place the knotted ends of the cords onto the pouch as shown below and stich them to the pouch. I like a whip stitch that both attatches the cord to the leather and tightens the leather around the cord like a sleeve. Remember that the side of the pouch where the knots are is the INSIDE of the pouch, or where the rock will go. This is very important to remember. When sewn like this the pouch will natrually cup towards the knots when tension is applied to the sling.  When I'm done with my stitches I always melt the loose end of the thread down mash it in place (wet your finger first).

...


Now to measure out the length of your sling. You'll want your sling to be, from loop to center of pouch, about the length from your pinched forefinger and thumb to the inside of your shoulder or from your pinched forefinger and thumb, with your arm relaxed at your side, to about 2 inches from the ground. You could certainly make it longer but that would make it very difficult to use if not impossible with the slinging style I'll illustrate further down.

...


Once you have that lenght measured out, wrap the cord around your middle finger at that length and sew it into a comfortable loop. What I like to do is use a clamp or hemostat to hold the loop in place. Then I put my finger in it and measure the sling again to be sure it's at the length I want.

Once you have your loop sewn in place put in on your middle finger, allowing the cord to go between your thumb and forefinger as shown in the photo below. Now thread the release cord through the release tab. Pinch the release tab the way you would if you were going to use the sling (again see picture). Bite the loose end of the release cord. With your other hand put your finger in the pouch so it folds around your finger right in it's middle and stretch it out until the retention cord is pulled tight. Now pull on the loose end of the release cord with your teeth while holding the tab so that the slack is taken out. Pull the release cord until the pouch ends line up evenly with each other with your finger in the middle of it. Then pinch the release cord just below the release tab. When you are sure that the release cord is now the proper length to make the pouch centered between the cords when you have the retention loop on your middle finger and you are pinching the release tab sew it in place and cut off the excess cordage. The goal of this was to adjust the cord lengths to compensate for the grip. The release cord will be shorter than the retention cord partly because of the leather tab and partly because the retention cord is secured further back in your hand than where you hold the release tab.

...

Congratulations, You now have a sling similar to mine. The only difference is the decorative wrappings and leather sleeves around the stitchings that I put on mine. You could do the same or come up with some other decorative way to protect and/or hide the stiches.




Casting Style:

I'm sure that everyone here is familiar with at least a couple of ways to cast a sling. Most predominant I'd imagine are the helicopter twirl and the underhand twirl.  And I bet that you've found it very difficult to be accurate with either.  I started slinging when I was five and used the helicopter twirl most of my life. I felt pretty good about my accuracy. In general it went the direction I wanted. It was only after I ran into another sling enthusiast that I was taught the current method I employ. Since then I've come across 2 other people who use the same style, and they were also taught by someone else, usually a grandfather. I've found with this style that I am much, much more accurate and quick with this style than with the other two I mentioned. I guess it could be called an overhand cast, or a figure 8 cast. Below are two links to a Video of me slinging using a crappy camera in crappy lighting  :blink: . And because it's hard to see, there is also a GIF made from the video to help illustrate the cast. (Some day I'll make a really nice video, with audio, of the style including a bunch of action shots of me and some friends slinging at various objects.)

Casting Movie mpeg format
Casting Movie avi format


...




Now for some more instructions:


...


Hold the sling as shown in the photo, with the retention loop around the middle finger and the cord going between the forefinger and thumb, and the release cord's leather tab pinched between the thumb and forefinger.

Place a rock in the pouch and hold it out with your weak hand. Line up you shoulders to the target, like you were going to overhand pitch a baseball to it.

Let the pouch drop as you begin to step into the throw. The pouch will go down along side your leg. Then it will begin to rotate out away from your body as you bring your hand up behind you. The sling will continue its arc around behind your head until you find yourself stretched out like you were going to pitch a baseball with the sling directly behind you already beginning to move in the direction of the throw.

Now just follow through with the cast and bring your arm forward in an overhand pitch. You'll learn to feel when to release. Don't worry if at first you keep hitting the ground in front of you. While learning I suggest using a tennis ball. If you forget to release the sling, or don't follow through properly, you may end up singing soprano for a while.
 
Start out slow with the sling, exaggerating the movement. Use your whole arm to make the sling go through it's loops. You'll find that as you practice, the movement in your arm will migrate from your elbow to your wrist. That's why it looks so complex. My arm looks like I'm throwing a ball but the sling with swirling all over the place. My wrist does all the work in moving the sling. But start off using your whole arm to articulate the movement as it helps to understand just what is going on in the cast.

As I mentioned above, I like using tennis balls, or apples, pears, potatoes, racquet balls, etc.... when teaching new people to sling. They are soft and forgiving but have enough mass to be slung. When you get down to business, though, I suggest looking for stones about the same size and shape as an Egg.  When handled just right they take on a backspin from the cast and seem to float at head level for about 150yards.  Ball bearings and fishing weights in the 2oz. range are also exceptional ammo.


Notes of Caution:

Damaging future unborn children is a definite hazard with this style when starting out. Usually, if people had a problem with the sling swinging into their nether regions it was because they were too stiff in their swing. They weren't allowing for a smooth follow through causing the sling to pivot around the hand, down into the body. One friend I taught to sling was a rancher, so he kept slinging like he was throwing a lasso rather than a baseball. I bet all his future kids are going to list to one side. 

When you first start out there is potential for the projectile to leave the sling unexpectedly or just be released at the wrong time. I read an account were a guy had the rock fly out at the wrong time and fractured the skull of a friend(brother?) who was standing 50yards lateral to him. What always impresses people when I'm demonstrating my sling is just how much power those stones have. They will easily kill someone let alone shatter windows or make impressive dents in cars. So, when starting out, use a soft ammo like I mentioned above, be sure you have plenty of space to practice, and make sure that there isn't any one standing where they could get hit, that includes behind you.

And lastly, be sure to warm up before slinging. Something about the nature of slinging makes a person prone to developing tennis elbow or volleyball shoulder as my sister called it. For me it was my shoulder that started to hurt. The doctor told me that I had developed a sub luxating shoulder much like volleyball players do when they serve or spike a lot. What took care of it was a little weight lifting. I'd primarily do rotary cuff exercises. One excersise  that worked really well was holding a small weight(5-10lbs) with my elbow at my side bent at a right angle. Then, while keeping my elbow at my side, I'd rotate my arm out and back in. I really felt the burn in my shoulder but it has completely removed all the pain I was suffering and it hasn't come back.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #24 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:51pm
 
WOW! Thanks for the Monster reply! Shocked Shocked Shocked

Yes, I guess my cords are too loose. I was able to get ahold of some good material for cords and slings, so I'll experiment with that.
Oh, does pouch length matter? Because I find longer pouches tend to encourage twisting... Undecided

Hmmm, a purchasable sling...intriguing. How much do you charge??

Also, if you don't mind my asking...where do you live?
Because I think I recognise the place that you sling at.
Thanks for the help,

8)

p.s. You have a beautiful sling! Wink

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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #25 - Oct 11th, 2006 at 7:55pm
 
I'm out in the highdesert called Utah. That old slinging video was taken up by Vivian Park outside of Provo Utah.

I forgot that I had an "ad" in that post. hehe, well, I charge $20 USD even to make a sling (that includes postage) mostly because I end up poking myself with the sewing needle. Though I just bought some more leather working tools which will greatly ease and speed up the process of sling building.
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #26 - Oct 12th, 2006 at 4:26pm
 

Now that's a class act.....


No surprise here.



8)



TS
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #27 - Oct 13th, 2006 at 9:32pm
 
BRAVO!......Standing ovation!
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #28 - Oct 13th, 2006 at 9:59pm
 
great instruction
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Re: Question for nwmanitou. (others welcome)
Reply #29 - Oct 24th, 2006 at 12:21am
 
Hi,

I've been experimenting, so I had to revive this thread.  Wink
Does the pouch length matter?? Longer seems to ecourage twisting.  Undecided

And, what pouch style does everybody recommend?
Yurek's seems intriguing, (there's a link around here somewhere with a  pic...)
I made a pouch with two strips, forming a sort of cup-but it didn't turn out too well.
Just a flat pouch seems to go awry with me-the stone falls out, or the cords twist...(Murphy's law of slinging Grin)
so, I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks,

8)

P.s. nwmanitou, did you see the rhyme dedicated to you? (Topic name - An absolutely delightful day.)
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