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Apache or not apache? (Read 2683 times)
JustKnot
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Apache or not apache?
Aug 30th, 2006 at 1:01pm
 
Could anybody tell me if that what I'm doing is pure apache (the 1st cast)?
The second cast is a modified version of the first one, it gives ~20-50m more distance...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mCZHXZegg
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Dale
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #1 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 5:32pm
 
Your style looks effective, but it is not the Apache style.  You are using a windup swing; the Apache style has no windup at all.  Here is Larry Forsyth's description of the Apache style; it is the definitive description.

Quote:
Stand very still while facing your prey with your body at an angle of about 45 or more degrees. Keep the throwing arm side of your body to the rear, hidden from the target's line of sight. Hold your visible arm close to you, across your body.

Note that your free arm is not held behind you, it is in front of you; but it is folded across your belly so that an animal looking at you won't immediately realize that it is an arm.

Quote:
Without hesitation and without moving a step, very quickly swing your arm and sling up from behind you and over the top in an overhand throw while attempting to keep your arm as straight and long as you can for airspeed. Put your body fully behind it in a fast turning motion similar to a baseball pitcher but without the step. Be aggressive and make all motions as large as you can. It's usually harder to correct a bad habit than to learn it right the first time. You may try a forward step as you throw but I believe you'll find that it slows you down. The body motion requires more twisting than an Atlatl or Tomahawk throw.

And there you have it.  Your arm is only swinging through about 180 degrees between start and release.  Your shoulder, chest and belly muscles are used to increase the force applied to the stone.

I find it helps me to fall into a slight crouch, with my body upright but my legs bent, as I twist and release.  Forsyth said that some people may take a small step, like an American baseball pitcher, but Grandfather thought that unnecessary.
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JustKnot
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #2 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 6:39pm
 
THX for info Dale, the world of slinging has just became much clearer now Smiley Gonna go try that true apache tomorrow - sounds interesting... Should be good for targeting...

yep, effective... my PB is nearly 250m with 65cm sling in that second style, just my ammo is kinda small... I think rocks I sling weight only ~60-80g
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Dale
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #3 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 8:20pm
 
I wish we had a video of Grandfather using a sling.  Unfortunately, he was already in his seventh decade, when Larry Forsyth met him back in the 1960's.  I doubt he is around now.  And according to Forsyth, the young men in his tribe were not interested in learning the old skills.

The entire article by Forsyth is
here
.

One of our members posted an account of someone who had worked as a shepherd in her youth, and watching her "kill" a trash can like she had killed coyotes,
here
.  This style is similar to the Apache style, but has a short windup.
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Tint
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #4 - Aug 30th, 2006 at 8:47pm
 
Nice to see you on video, Justknot!

Nice styles too!
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Dale
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #5 - Aug 31st, 2006 at 2:32am
 
JustKnot,

I read your posts again ... I think if you sling for distance, you will be disappointed with the Apache style.  I have not gotten past about 40 yards (36 meters).  And you are getting 250 meters with your style?  I'm going to have to try it!
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sv
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2006 at 3:43am
 
i can get about 90 yards with apache. it seems to be more accurate with heavier stones. the only difference is my arm does not come directly overhead like a cricketer bowling a ball, but at an angle. from 1 (highest position) to 7 o'clock. assuming i am facing the clock. 
that video of you throwing is smooth and relaxed, i would guess that you are very accurate.

sv
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JustKnot
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #7 - Aug 31st, 2006 at 5:03am
 
hehe... not so accurate as I would like to be Grin
In the mentioned Baltic Champs I hit a tree ~0.5m diameter just 2 out of 6 shots... Though don't know what was the distance, because Demagogs was measuring, but I think that was 20 steps? (Reinis, correct me if I'm wrong)

BTW when shooting for accuracy I don't move my feet when releasing, and for distance I always do a twist around my left foot. I also stretch my left arm in front of me for better aiming it helps me to get the right direction or correct my swing just before the cast.

Tried to simulate apache today, its kinda hard to get straight swing from that position of arm... I can feel all my muscles stretching... Will have to do more exercises on that... yeah... exercises Roll Eyes
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nightweave
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #8 - Aug 31st, 2006 at 6:45am
 
JustKnot,

It actually looks more like a modified figure eight than anything else, an around the elbow figure eight.

nightweave.
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sv
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #9 - Aug 31st, 2006 at 7:43pm
 
justknot, it's a pity we havent adopted the sv system (ahem) of accuracy, which is trashcan/football/cokecan/max distance, then we could see exactly what was what - but 2/6 is pretty good

sv
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Conteilboos
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #10 - Sep 1st, 2006 at 6:50pm
 
Quote:
it seems to be more accurate with heavier stones.  

sv



I agree with this... when i sling apache style I prefer to use rocks that are a bit larger than a baseball or even the size of a softball. I dont get much distance with this but am more accurate...My excuse is that i can feel the weight of the rock when i bring it over my head.
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JustKnot
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #11 - Sep 2nd, 2006 at 12:49pm
 
if I were apache I wouldn't survive... with apache style I can't throw further than 30 meters, and my whole right upper part of body aches... my poor shoulders and back...
Next time I'll be greek... Grin
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Dale
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Re: Apache or not apache?
Reply #12 - Sep 3rd, 2006 at 1:23pm
 
JustKnot,

Mea culpa!  I should not have ended my quote where I did!  Mr. Forsyth went on to say:

Quote:
If your muscles are not used to this motion, start slow and work up to speed over a period of time. Speed and accuracy will only come with daily practice ...


I'm sorry, I should have included that part when I quoted him.
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No, I don't live in a glass house.&&&&"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."&&&&Context matters!  "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...
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