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Tint

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Spin!
Jul 17^th, 2006, 9:40pm

I started using wide grip not long ago and I feel I am getting the spiral spin now. Especially with long narrow stones. It feels more acurate than closed grip somehow. Less powerful though and it hurts my fingers more.

So are there any tip in controling the spin? I find that a softer pocket and shorter slings works better. Also an asymetrical pocket helps. Any other? Textured pocket, perharps?

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siguy Interfector Viris Spurii si vis pacem para bellum Posts: 1714 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #1 - Jul 17^th, 2006, 9:44pm i learned on the wide grip long before i knew the difference between that and the narrow grip. i don't really pay attention to the spin, as my stones are either aimed for right in front of me or way out across the forest.
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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua Interfector Viris Spurii Matthew 11:25-30 Posts: 1700 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #2 - Jul 17^th, 2006, 10:35pm If one is using smooth round stones, spin is not a major factor within the range that one can expect acceptable accuracy. For distance, why not try a steering vane....it's a rather spoiling experience and more forgiving on hand and wrist joints. TS
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nightweave

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Re: Spin!
Reply #3 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 1:23am

Hey Tint,

In theory, accuracy comes by being able to repeat the same throw and hit the same spot, this is then adjusted to different ranges.

What happens to the projectile has some input in your accuracy but not as much as your sling casters and ability to reproduce the throw.

Note: This doesn't take into account the physics behind the ammunition itself. (Roughness, smoothness, aerodynamic)

That said, after reading allot of stuff on slinging.org and then on the theory behind it. I would say something along these lines:

Spin creates the magnus effect and is always at work no matter which direction the object is spinning.

Really you just want a consistent spin in one direction with no spin/tumble in any other direction.

The spin left or right will push the projectile off target to the left or right, top spin will make it fall short and back spin make it go further.

So in the end, you the caster make the decision on which one you want to be consistent with then adjust your casting style to compensate. My suggestion would be to give it a hell of a back spin and then go from there.

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siguy Interfector Viris Spurii si vis pacem para bellum Posts: 1714 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #4 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 11:24am ts, does the vane attach to the pocket of the sling or to the projectile to act as a sort of fletching and keep the projectile going front first? if attached to the projectile, i can see a large benefit, as it would take no time at all for the oblong ammo to turn so that it is facing in the most earodynamic direction
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Æthelbera Interfector Viris Spurii Resident Cavegirl Posts: 1135 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #5 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 12:39pm Excuse my being naive, but what is "wide-grip"?
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siguy

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Re: Spin!
Reply #6 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 1:05pm

that is okay bjarn, i only figured it out recently.
wide grip is when you hold the sling loop on your middle finger or first finger or ring finger or pinky and then let it hang down and grip the release node with your thumb and forfinger, or at least so that it comes out around there.

narrow grip is when you run the retention cord throught your hand so that both cords are pinched together.

btw, this kid i am teaching to sling uses a weird grip. he puts the retention cord on his middle finger and holds the release knot btween his middle and first finger tips so that it is a wide grip, but he doesn't use his thumb at all, just those two fingers. the cord, btw, is at the tips of his fingers, sort of like davincci's staff sling design with the slit in the end if the staff

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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua

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Re: Spin!
Reply #7 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 1:18pm

Here is a pic of one of my prototype distance rigs. The steering vane is attached to the pocket, enabling one to produce consistent spiral releases nearly every cast. I say nearly, because natural ammo will sometimes have destabilization issues caused by shape/mass imbalance. Obviously, the more symmetrical one's ammo choice, the better one can expect in the way of performance. I'm a bit discriminating when it comes to rock choice, so I can get spiral releases at every cast.

TS

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siguy

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Re: Spin!
Reply #8 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 2:31pm

i see.

for some specialized ammo you could cast lead bullets with a little ring attached to the backside for attachment to a vane of sorts that would keep the ammo going the right way striaght out of the pocket. sort of like fletching. it produces drag to the rear of the projectile so that it will go just a little slower than the front, making it always fly point first.

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Dale

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Re: Spin!
Reply #9 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 3:57pm

Siguy,
The attachment ring is in the back end of the glande? So at release, it would be oriented perpendicular to the direction of flight, and the fletching would cause it to rotate and stabilize in a nose-first orientation.

There is another way to do it, used by David Engvall when he set the Guinness world record for slinging (though I still think his rig is more like a kestrosphendone than a sling). David Engvall used darts with a hole in the side, to which a specialized release mechanism was attached. There is a link to a picture, in the gallery, and here is a link to a larger-scale photo that shows more details. The picture is 1.2 megabytes, so I hope you have a fast connection...

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Dale Interfector Viris Spurii Posts: 1581 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #10 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 4:07pm TechStuf, A year ago I saw Jurek's idea for keeping the cords from fouling the release, and made myself a copy of it. I just had to; it was such a neat idea. Now I am going to be busy this evening, and it is all your fault! I would guess that this sling has to be used with a narrow grip (just like Jurek's design).
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Æthelbera Interfector Viris Spurii Resident Cavegirl Posts: 1135 Gender:	Re: Spin! Reply #11 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 4:27pm I guess I use wide grip then! I put the loop around my middle finger and hold the release between my first finger and thumb
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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua

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Re: Spin!
Reply #12 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 5:11pm

Speaking of Jurek....I wonder where he has gotten to?

He is a "true slinger" if ever there was one! My release mechanism is an adaptation of my dart release hook I was using in the eighties and lends itself well to either wide or narrow grip style. Yurek's is simpler and certainly as functional. Actually, there are a number of ways to prevent one's ammunition from contacting the release cord, some simpler than Yurek's and mine both.

I'm confident that you, Dale.....could put us both to shame by introducing one of those methods, if so inclined!

8)

TS

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Dale

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Re: Spin!
Reply #13 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 5:57pm

TechStuf,

Can I verify a couple of details of your design?

It looks like the washer has holes drilled in it at (from the top, where the release cord attaches) 12 o'clock, 6 o'clock and 8 o'clock (that being where the retained cord attaches), and the release cut runs at about a 30 degree angle from vertical ("vertical" being the angle from the release cord, through the washer to the fixed pouch attachment). Am I close?

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No, I don't live in a glass house.

"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."

Context matters! "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...

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Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua

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Re: Spin!
Reply #14 - Jul 18^th, 2006, 6:07pm

Pretty darn, Dale....pretty darn.

As this step, like the hand made sling grips, is quite time consuming.....I am having both parts outsourced in the interest of producing a safer, more profitable and durable unit.

Here is what the release hook on our production model will look like:

Such design maximizes the leverage effect, greatly reducing the amount of tension on the release tab, enabling one to get the most out of the Pro-Grip and comfortably sling heavier ammo as well.

TS

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« Last Edit: Jul 18^th, 2006, 11:06pm by Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua »

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