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Is it real? David and Goliath (Read 102259 times)
Tint
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #45 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 7:26pm
 
Yeah, I never doubted it.  There must have been thousands of witnesses.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #46 - Feb 19th, 2007 at 9:21pm
 
The throws from the ancient warriors were described as "kill a horse" or slightly less powerful the the early muskets...., I think they can really kill horses with slings! Even a giant like Goliath died from the sling shot. Roll Eyes Shocked
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #47 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 6:39am
 
There's no actual reason for david and goliath not being an actual historical event.
However I believe that it's only mentioned in the old testament, which is not an historical record but a series of stories to illustrate life.  Bear in mind that those who write 'historical texts' for religious reasons are not impartial in any way - so the truth is invariably substituted for something that gives a better impression or serves a better purpose. ie: in this case showing David as chosen by his god.

If there were corraborating historical texts that also described the same battle/events - then yeah I'd go for it.
But in their absence I have to see it as a fable based on possible generalities.

As far as the heaven hell thing goes. If you believe the bible then you believe that god cast lucifer morningstar down and created hell.
So is it that you simply don't believe in angels or that you don't believe in an afterlife where souls are sorted into good and bad ?
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #48 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 8:56am
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 20th, 2007 at 6:39am:
As far as the heaven hell thing goes. If you believe the bible then you believe that god cast lucifer morningstar down and created hell.
So is it that you simply don't believe in angels or that you don't believe in an afterlife where souls are sorted into good and bad ?


The bible has a lot of valuable information but I do not believe every word literally as it was written, translated and edited by humans.

I believe in an afterlife, but I do not believe in an eternal punishment. Which soul would be good and which would be bad? Every human has "good" sides and "bad" sides.

As I have already written I do believe that when you die you might feel a very heavy conscience that might hurt. At least my limited human conscience can already hurt a lot. I guess the idea that this pain might be eternal and a punishment was an idea that frightened humans got.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #49 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 12:49pm
 
whatever works for you  :-)

Personally I'm just too cynical to believe in a god of gods.

Although I do have a soft spot for guanyin, but that's another story lol
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #50 - Feb 20th, 2007 at 1:15pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 20th, 2007 at 12:49pm:
whatever works for you  Smiley


Life would be boring if everybody had the same default beliefs, wouldn't it? Wink
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #51 - Feb 23rd, 2007 at 4:53pm
 
Many events have been proven to have taken place, as well as places and locations have also been found to have existed, that no longer exist today, through archeology, excavation and and the reading of ancient languages and scripts, which leads me to conclude that this event, in all probability did take place, I also think that the Bible does give us a good and acurate history of ancient man and what life was like back then.
Of course all books that were written, were written by men who are indead fallible,
I wonder if in a thousand years, men will pick apart Einstein's theory of relitivity, saying he was only a fallible man, and that E=mc x 2 probably never realy existed, even though it was written down, by men, in the pages of a book.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #52 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:26pm
 
Here is a site that is very helpful for this discussion.
Listen to the commentary also. Its very good.

http://www.scripturessay.com/q420d.html
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #53 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 2:50am
 
I think I overlooked something. David was running towards Goliath while slinging the stone before Goliath could see what was happening. ?
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #54 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 5:25am
 
In my version of the Bible it sounds like Goliath just saw David's staff. ("Why are you coming at me with a staff? Do you think I am a dog?").

The above link was a bit strange in my view. A sling and four stones to fight against a whole host on your own for a few moments? The only thing he could have done if the enemies attacked him was to run back to his own lines.

I guess the number five is probably not quite exact as the bible was written much later. But let's say it is correct. It would make sense as he would not be able to throw another stones anyway if he missed with five stones.

"By any earthy standard, the outcome of this battle would be "sure thing."" Err...yes, if Goliath didn't see the sling he was sure dead. But I guess the authors meant it the opposite way.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #55 - Mar 6th, 2007 at 2:27pm
 
Back then, it was fairly common for battles to be opened, and perhaps decided entirely, by a fight between champions.  Goliath had been out there every day for more than a month, challenging the Israelites to send him a champion to fight with.  I won't say they were too chicken, but certainly no one considered himself to have a chance against the Philistine giant.  Remember the terms of Goliath's challenge: "Choose you a man, and let him come down to me! If he prevail in fighting with me, and smite me, then will we become your servants -- but if I prevail over him, and smite him, then shall you become our servants, and serve us."  Both armies would be able to watch the contest, from their camps on opposite hills with a valley between; Goliath called his challenge each day from the valley, below his own people. If a Israelite accepted the challenge, and lost, it would be disastrous for his side, for they would be bound to serve the Philistines; and if they decided after the contest to fight, they would be at a distinct disadvantage, because the Philistines would be heartened by their champion's victory, and enraged by the dishonorable conduct of the Israelites.

The point is, David had no thought of fighting all the Philistines with five stones.  He needed only to kill Goliath.  If there was fighting after that, the whole army behind him would be involved.  With no armor and only a sling, David would be entirely justified in running back to his own lines, away from the Philistines; no one would expect an unarmored youth to stand up to an armored army.

I don't have any idea how heavy a stone David used, but it was sufficient to cave in Goliath's forehead.  He was dead or dying when David took his sword from him and cut off his head.  This was for the Philistine's benefit: it is one thing to see your champion fall, from where you stand watching on the hill; you might expect him to recover himself, get up, and slice the kid with the sling in half.  But when the kid holds up your champion's head, you know the fight is over.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #56 - Mar 19th, 2007 at 10:20pm
 
My question Now is Five "flat stones" is this yet another thing about slinging I have yet to learn. but to me flat stone means odd und predictable flight pattern
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #57 - Mar 20th, 2007 at 6:41am
 
In my translation it just says "fünf glatte Kieselsteine" ("five smooth pebbles")
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #58 - Mar 23rd, 2007 at 5:49pm
 
in light of this I now carry four stones in my non- firing hand and one in the pouch
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #59 - Mar 27th, 2007 at 3:30pm
 
Well I'd have a pouch with as many good stones as I could cram into it and a handful besides.
Assuming the fight did actually take place - most of the details would be aprocyphal anyway.
It sounds much better to say he only had five stones.
That way it looks like he either had faith in his god to help him (what you are supposed to think) or he was a cocky little git who didn't think he'd need more than five stones.
:-)
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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