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Is it real? David and Goliath (Read 91641 times)
axon50
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #240 - Nov 4th, 2007 at 9:21pm
 
Dravonk wrote on Nov 4th, 2007 at 7:11am:
axon50 wrote on Nov 4th, 2007 at 3:23am:
very well, i disagree with everyone who thinks that most of the authors of the bible are lyers

Did anyone call them lyers? I don't think so. Just because the stories are not scientifically correct to the last word does not mean that their authors "lied". They just wanted to share their wisdom as far as they knew. But as time goes on, we learn more and more (ok, sometimes we also forget). I don't think most of them even intended to write scientific texts. When you write a rough story, a picture that is meant to simplify a more complex reality, do you lie? I don't think so. But you should not make the mistake to mix the simplification with the reality.

And thanks to AussieSlinger for his words of wisdom!

nobody called them liers directly, but claiming that they deliberately wrote what they didn't know is just about the same, so i just had to read between the lines. The bible is not fully scientificy correct, i know, but god made the entire world and as science is part of it he obviously made it and has the means to manipulate and controll it, i belive god made science on the first day because he made time and light on that day, some language value may have been lost in translation, or because the ancient peoples had very little idea of science, god simply did not mention it because they would find it complicating.
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Žęr węron ongemang eallra žisra rinca seofone hund manna ža že węron wineserhande, žara ęlc cuše weorpan stan mid lišere and ne misweorpan. &&&&16 ferses 20 heafodwearde Demena bec. (Judges 20:16)
 
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Nakki
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #241 - Jan 7th, 2008 at 4:22pm
 
Maybe they weren't lying. They just told the truth of that time. They didn't know any better so they explained things that they dont understand by god and miracles.

An example: In ancient times it was considered miraclous that some temples attracted lightning bolts. Temples that attracted more lightning were considered more "blessed" or nearer to god. Those temples became popular ofcourse. When temple is popular it gets more donations and so fort. So those people recorded that the temple was divinely blessed because they didn't know about electricity. Studies have shown that those "blessed" temples were located on high ground and they some times had some sort of attractor to lightning. Big metallic pole on top of the temple for example.

When reading the Bible you have to understand how the society worked on that time and how much they knew about their world around them. You really can't put all the things in the Bible on modern society. There's a part in a New Testament that allows you to kill you servant if he doesn't obey you. Is that then absolute right? There are many parts where the New Testament is totally different about some things than the Old Testament. If you're christian you follow the New Testament. If you're jewish you follow the Old Testament. To me Bible gives good guide lines to life in some cases. Most of the Western civilizations laws can be found in some way from the Bible. But the modern day laws have been modificated to our way of thinking and to our societies. Every country (and human too) has it's own way to read the law and adjust it to the situation. Sometimes there are event's where following the law might just be the worst option. Then you just have to adjust to the situation.
Everyone have been granted with brains and I suggest to use them.
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Monkeywjcr
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #242 - Mar 15th, 2008 at 8:14pm
 
Yes
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #243 - Jun 24th, 2008 at 10:40pm
 
I do not doubt at all that It was a real event. when looking at it from a historical standpoint (facts outside the bible) they're was without a doubt an actual king David of Israel. Goliath has only been found a few times outside of the bible such as a piece of pottery with his name on it..which could be see as support for him being a real person.. also their are many conditions ect.. that make it possible to reach 9 feet tall.. the current world's tallest person is 8 feet 5.5 inches.. though many translations of texts have errors.. some say he was 8 feet tall, 9 feet tall, 10 feet tall...anything over 7ft is a giant to them

anyone who is considered a Giant is quite a formidable opponent.. andre the Giant was 7'4 500 lbs... a person who is 5'4ish probably 160 lbs is nothing..its like an adult fighting a 6 year old. He was very impressive..he could down 50 beers and a bottle of jack Daniels and drive all his bodies home.. you have to respect that ability lol..


I really hate debates about the Bible.. "mans thoughts are not gods thoughts" I'm very happy being Christian and know God is with me regardless of what other people want to feel and believe.. go ahead its fine with me..im not going to force anything on another person and would appreciate people not trying to force beliefs on me..and no Christianity is not and never will be a "crutch".. just because you (people who call it a crutch) are unhappy with what your life is doesnt justify your dislike for people who are happy.

I will say this how can humans live by logic when humans are illogical. why are we directed by our emotions to do things that are not in what logic would say is our best interest
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Nakki
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #244 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 6:13am
 
Goliath wasn't really a giant. He was a relly tall man at that ages standards. The Dead Sea Scrolls say that he was little over 2 meters tall (that's about 6'7"). Average height of males in those days was about 165cm-170cm (5'5") so man over 180cm (6') was already big man. Dead Sea Scroll were written about 100CE. The size of Goliath must have grown because people grow. Nowadays man who is 6'5" tall ain't a giant but he is a relly tall man.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #245 - Jul 12th, 2008 at 2:46pm
 
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #246 - Jul 12th, 2008 at 8:22pm
 
Nakki,

"Giant" is one of those words that have to be carefully defined.  The word means different things to different people.  My own idea of what a giant is, was formed from reading fairy tales when I was a child.  "Fifty Famous Fairy Tales" was the title of the volume, and the giants mentioned therein were truly colossal: human in form, but thirty feet or more in height, able to pick up and carry a normal man in one hand.  On the other hand, in modern medicine, someone as little as seven feet in height may be regarded as a giant; but then, doctors are looking not just at the height, but at hormonal abnormalities (overproduction of growth hormone, for instance).

What was meant in the Bible is less clear to me.  I have not found, so far, any measure of the usual height of people.  I do know that lengths were measured in cubits, which is an anthropocentric measure, being the distance from one's elbow to the tips of one's outstretched fingers.  It is commonly understood to be about 18 inches these days.  I can reason from current measurements as follows: if a cubit be the modern 18 inches, then the normal range of heights (five feet and some inches to six feet) would be three-and-a-half to four cubits.  If people were shorter a few thousand years ago, then likewise would their cubits (measured by their own arms) be shorter.  So three-and-a-half to four cubits remains a decent educated guess about how tall people were.

Now, it is recorded that Goliath stood six cubits and a span (or six-and-a-half cubits) in height.  So, Goliath would be half again as tall, to almost twice as tall, as most people around him.  By way of comparison, there are professional basketball players today that are half again as tall as some of us.

The weight of his armor and his weapons is also recorded.  It is apparent that Goliath was not just a very tall man, he was BIG.  He had thickness of body, arms, and legs in proportion to his height.  He would have to be quite strong to wield his weapons.

Certainly Goliath was not one of my fairy-tale giants.  But he was much larger than normal men, enough so perhaps to warrant being called a giant and not just a very big man.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #247 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 12:31am
 
Nakki wrote on Jul 1st, 2008 at 6:13am:
The Dead Sea Scrolls say that he was little over 2 meters tall (that's about 6'7"). 


The Dead Sea scrolls date from much later than the time of David, so they may not be too accurate on Goliath's height. And I doubt that they say "two meters", as the metric system was far into the future. It would be interesting if there was a Judaean or Roman measurement that was precisely one meter. Maybe he was 4 cubits tall, but cubits might vary in size from culture to culture.

How would they get his height, anyhow? Ask the Philistines? Didn't the Philistines recover the body (minus head) for burial? 
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #248 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 10:09am
 
Search results show the cubit to be between 18" and 22", so I think that Dale is accurate in saying the length of ones forearm is a cubit...Six cubits and a span.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #249 - Jul 13th, 2008 at 10:11am
 
Oh,and the bible is a history book.It was compiled by the hand of God.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #250 - Jul 14th, 2008 at 9:55am
 
   I think it's not that unbelievable, disregarding the fact whether the Bible is true or not (I'm a Christian, so I regard it as a History book and God's Word). Aren't there people out there who trained for years as a slinger and can sling pretty well? A forehead won't be a super challenging target for a slinger like David, because if he was a shepherd he would've been slinging since he was a child, probably trained in his art by his father or other shepherd friends. If you don't believe it, then you can just stick a piece of cardboard the size of your forehead, stick it to a 8-9ft tall stick, and try shooting it once a day. If you hit it, this story (not meaning the imagined story-book stories, but history-story) can be possible. Right?
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David: "Seriously, I was just shooting that little birdie when Goliath's face suddenly popped up!"&&&&Police: "Yea yea...let's see if the jury believe you."
 
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Nakki
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #251 - Jul 14th, 2008 at 4:06pm
 
Maybe I jused the word giant in a wrong way, but Goliath is "marketed" many times as a giant (here in Finland anyway). People mix this with their fairy tale giant and all of a suden Goliath is 10 meter's tall. Tried to correct that false understanding in someway. Obviosly got it little wrong  Undecided

I just mean that his height was little over 2 meters if it would have been converted in to metric system from the system that Judaeans and Romans used. I didn't mean litterally that it said so in the Scrolls. Sorry for the mishap.  Embarrassed(Metric system was found in Napoleon's time by the way. One of his modernizations in matter of fact.)

The Dead Sea scrolls were written nearer the event than nowadays Bibles so the Scrolls are probaply little more accurate than modern Bibles. Logic, eh?
When you read Bible you always have to realise it was primaly written as religious book, the historical parts are in a "siderole" so to say. Some of it's parts are real historical event's, but religion is always on the background.
The first books that were counted as history books were the one that hadn't any religous or divine in them. This is a fact that most of the historains agree (I have been teached in this way). So Gilgamesh, Coran, Bible, Ilias and Odyesseia aren't really history books (no mean to mock them as books).

I believe that David could have slain Goliath. Not sure did it happen thought. I need some more sources than the Bible by itself. Book that were written primaly as history books.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #252 - Jul 14th, 2008 at 4:38pm
 

Quote:
I believe that David could have slain Goliath.



Many also believe that Yahshua, Jesus Christ, could have died for all man's sins. 


There is a great and powerful difference between knowing what could be and what is, truth.  Ultimately, that difference is the large chasm between finite and forever. 


Forgiven and forgotten.


The prophecies of the Holy Bible are being borne out the world over, and soon, what IS will take a commanding precedence over what could be and what could have been.


http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&i...



Blessings from Yahweh in Yahshau, Jesus Christ be upon us,



TS
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #253 - Jul 14th, 2008 at 5:41pm
 
Nakki wrote on Jul 14th, 2008 at 4:06pm:
I just mean that his height was little over 2 meters if it would have been converted in to metric system from the system that Judaeans and Romans used. I didn't mean litterally that it said so in the Scrolls. Sorry for the mishap.  Embarrassed(Metric system was found in Napoleon's time by the way. One of his modernizations in matter of fact.)

--I haven't read the Dead Sea Scrolls. No idea what they may have said about Goliath's height. Provided he did exist he would have been a big guy, and was slain by the future king of Israel.

The Dead Sea scrolls were written nearer the event than nowadays Bibles so the Scrolls are probaply little more accurate than modern Bibles. Logic, eh?

--Most likely correct. Less chance for errors in translation.

The first books that were counted as history books were the one that hadn't any religous or divine in them. This is a fact that most of the historains agree (I have been teached in this way). So Gilgamesh, Coran, Bible, Ilias and Odyesseia aren't really history books (no mean to mock them as books).

--Here in the USA there are lots of people who believe in the literal truth of the Bible. As in some other countries lots of people believe the Koran is the literal truth. Obviously they can't both be right.

I believe that David could have slain Goliath. Not sure did it happen thought. I need some more sources than the Bible by itself. Book that were written primaly as history books.

--Don't think there were books written as history in that period. Mostly writings saying our side (or our king) is great and the other guys are a crew of depraved cowards and heretics.

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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #254 - Jul 23rd, 2008 at 6:59pm
 
just over 2 meters hey wait a moment
no wonder i feel the need to always carry a sling for self defence lol Grin
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