Slinging.org Forum - What is a sling?

nwmanitou

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #30 - Jul 21^st, 2004 at 9:32pm

Theory and Conjecture are fair enough, but I say lets put your glandes where your mouth is... er, no wait, that sounds like some sordid skin flick. Ok, rephrase....

Lets go out and measure our respective ranges. Go to the driving range or out in a field or something. I'm sure some of you guys have GPS systems, those would be accurate enough to measure the yardage. Next month, any of you guys near Utah county, perhaps we should all get together one saturday and toss some rocks.

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knight

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #31 - Jul 21^st, 2004 at 10:01pm

ok i think we should settle this discusion earlyer someone said about we have records on this website about that person who flung a rock 1500 ft well someone who is experienced with this website just gather everytiny bit of info on it and back it up cause i wana know (o yea someone said the Balearic, records that vicente got were good but just to let anyone that doesnt know i got those

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JeffH

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #32 - Jul 21^st, 2004 at 11:45pm

I agree with Techstuff (which I rarely do when attitude is in question) that Vicente's original post appeared to be challenging to our integrity, and maybe much worse. I think the topic has therefore been handled with great kindness.

Not long ago a young fellow posted here saying we were all a bunch if weaklings who were overly impressed with out own accomplishments. He said that he was besting all our distances and that we needed a reality check and should not be so proud of ourselves. Then it came to light that he had only read several posts by novice slingers reporting very short ranges. In the end, the accuser was shown to actually be slinging a bit shorter than most of us if I remember correctly.

We ALL react to the world based on our own experiences. Most people think that they way they do things is best and in some cases the only way it can be done. Hondero is a example of just the opposite. His vast historical and practical research have given him knowledge of the many different practices and accomplishments of slingers around the world.

In the end, I don't think Vicente was really accusing Chris or anyone else of deception or exaggeration. Rather, his incredulity was so strong that he could not suspend his disbelief and get a hold on what he was reading. He may, in fact, have simply assumed that we all sling like he does, and therefore must by necessity embelish our distances to make such reports as we do.

I do not sling underhand very well and am fairly certain I have slung stones of various weights over 600 feet. Jurek and others have bested me by half that without any trickery as far as I know. One of the things this web site has done is provide an honest forum for slingers around the world to report their findngs and accomplishments and for all of us to learn.

May all the Balaerics both teach and learn as I have.

jeff <><

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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)

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Zorrro

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #33 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 3:50am

Talking about who got it longer... err... the range Grin

Any tips on how can i measure distance? i mean where and how can i do it? i think i'll need a plain surface i.e. a beach or prairie or desert zone... with no people, but i think it will be difficult to find where stones are falling far away.... what do you use? Colored stones? A well trained bloodhound?
Beaches in the surroundings are not of sand, they're of stones, lots of ammo but hard to tell where your projectile is amongst those baziillion of stones... i think i'll have to use bright colored stones and hurl away a batch of them, then measure an average distance.
I have no GPS so i'll have to use the ultimate ECHRF (el cheepo range finder) that is a string with measure marks on it.
Any better ideas?

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Vicente

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #34 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 6:42am

Hello JeffH

I suppose you will agree with me that the written communication is very complicated, because what tries to express the one that writes, can be not well interpreted therefore maybe by the one that reads it, what I wrote it has not been correctly conversant for you

I think that if somebody had thrown a stone with a leather sling to more than 1400 feet of distance, he will have made it with arrangement to some previously established rules, these rules should suppose that they are publish for knowledge of who wants to overcome this record

If I could know these rules and circumstances in those that this record was achieved, maybe I could change my opinion and to believe that it is possible that a man with a sling throws a projectile so far

Where I can find and to study these rules??

Greetings,
Vicente

Quote:

I agree with Techstuff (which I rarely do when attitude is in question) that Vicente's original post appeared to be challenging to our integrity, and maybe much worse. I think the topic has therefore been handled with great kindness.

Not long ago a young fellow posted here saying we were all a bunch if weaklings who were overly impressed with out own accomplishments. He said that he was besting all our distances and that we needed a reality check and should not be so proud of ourselves. Then it came to light that he had only read several posts by novice slingers reporting very short ranges. In the end, the accuser was shown to actually be slinging a bit shorter than most of us if I remember correctly.

We ALL react to the world based on our own experiences. Most people think that they way they do things is best and in some cases the only way it can be done. Hondero is a example of just the opposite. His vast historical and practical research have given him knowledge of the many different practices and accomplishments of slingers around the world.

In the end, I don't think Vicente was really accusing Chris or anyone else of deception or exaggeration. Rather, his incredulity was so strong that he could not suspend his disbelief and get a hold on what he was reading. He may, in fact, have simply assumed that we all sling like he does, and therefore must by necessity embelish our distances to make such reports as we do.

I do not sling underhand very well and am fairly certain I have slung stones of various weights over 600 feet. Jurek and others have bested me by half that without any trickery as far as I know. One of the things this web site has done is provide an honest forum for slingers around the world to report their findngs and accomplishments and for all of us to learn.

May all the Balaerics both teach and learn as I have.

jeff <><

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Greetings,&&Vicente

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David_T Funditor Past Moderator Offline Hooked on Sling'n Posts: 760 Greenville,SC Gender:	Re: What is a sling? Reply #35 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 7:24am Re: World´s record holders « Reply #79 on: Feb 23rd, 2004, 9:37pm Vicente, You would enjoy reading the many posts under the above topic. There are pictures of his sling and stone and discussions about Larry's world record. Just go to the pages back in February of this year and you will find it. Hope it is helpful David
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Yurek

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #36 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 11:06am

Vicente,

If you have some free time you could read following topics, lots of reading but perhaps they will be interesting for you.

Mentioned by David:

"World´s record holders"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10769733...

and

"Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10726483...

"David Engvall's GWR documentation"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10788531...

Jurek

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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.

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Yurek

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #37 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 12:08pm

On measuring distaces,

Using GPS is a good idea but only for rough measurements. For exact ones one should use a geodetic GPS, these ones give errors ca. 1 cm but they are very expensive.

For rough measurements I use my bike with the meter which was tested with a measuring tape and gives the +/- 1-2% error. Now I have the great spot for slinging. That is the partially unused aerodrome, I have the premission from the boss of the local aeroclub. In this place stone or lead glandes recovering and measurings is very easy. I can use here as well the measuring tape, the bike and counting the conrete slabs.

Before I also estimated my ranges according to relations hidden observers or groups of trees, timber lines, which distances was known. Coasts also should be good. The above methods allow only to confirm surpassing of established distances and are good when one can't recover projectiles.

For easier findig glandes and marking impact points I paint projectiles with orange acrylic dye.

Jurek

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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.

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Matthias

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #38 - Jul 22^nd, 2004 at 12:42pm

Nice posts Hondero and JeffH...

Bike is a good idea... basically a surveyor's wheel with an extra wheel attached. I think that will get you as close as practicable without survey gear. Even using a marked line will be as bad or worse due to stretch/sag etc..

I envy all of you guys with salt flats / runways etc. Most of my stones go straight out into the ocean. You really need to be able to recover your ammo if you want to start playing around with "aero" or lead glandes.

Brings up another point though, and a disagreement I have with the Balearic rules as I understand Vincente's post. If you count range including the bounce, it makes the terrain and projectile shape pretty important. Easier to measure of course, but a nice clay field will have an obvious 50-75 ft advantage over grass for instance. I know a nice lake on the way to my uncle's house that given the right weather conditions later this winter could enable a 1-2 km throw Grin

(with conforming equipment even)...

I also noticed in the regulations Vincente linked to that the spec for the terrain is 200m... Maybe that is limiting range Cheesy

.

Seriously though... If people are feeling pretty satisfied with their accomplishments at surpassing the Balearic record for distance (I could only find two Vincente, have the distance competitions not been held often/regularily?), they should go browse through the accuracy scores... I'm an advocate of adopting the target/regulations for this competition, as has been discussed here before.

Vincente, you may be interested to know that we have talked about three "contests" that have achieved some degree of consensus recenently. One is your rules for accuracy, although with unlimited sling and stone specification. Maximum range, with no wind and a level surface. And a "safe" contest to see who can score an "American-Football Field Goal" from furthest out using an unmodified tennis ball. Three "disciplines" that emphasise three aspects of slinging.

Matthias

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JeffH

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #39 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 12:12am

Vicente,

I agree with your premise that to fairly outsling someone's record, it is only fair to use the same rules. But I only agree with this to a point. Not because rules are bad, but because rules can sometimes inhibit excellence and achievement if applied too strictly.

I think we should not compare apples to oranges when speaking of distances. The records set by your rules can only be broken by using those rules. Obviously, if you have rules and environmental conditions which are restrictive in some ways, records set under other conditions and rules might never be beat.

From one point of view the record of 1,400 + feet is really only valid in the context in which it was set. That is considering the following: equipment, projectile, elevation, weather, technique, strength, and maybe a few others. From another point of view, the record is valid because it was set using a sling and slinging technique of some sort.

Where I am from we like to have games of throwing a softball (like a baseball only bigger and heavier.) The ball is always the same and techniques vary slightly, the distance thrown is basically a function of the strength of the thrower. Distance of well over 300 feet are not uncommon with strong throwers. This cannot be compared to the olympic event of shot put however even though they are very similar events. The shot is thrown and techniques vary little, and the distances are mostly a function of the strength of the thrower. On the surface these are both throwing games which use a ball of some sort. Otherwise they cannot be directly compared.

I think the problem you are encountering, Vicente, is like the softball and shot put comparisson. One doing shot put should not be expected to achieve the distances of the softball thrower. Niether should he cry foul.

jeff <><

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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)

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Vicente

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #40 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 6:28am

After contemplating the pictures of this web http://www.claycritters.com/sling/Engvall%20Sling%20Dart.jpg with the record of David Engvall, I should say that this is something very different to what I refer.

First. the utilized sling is exaggeratedly long.

Second, the projectile is an arrow and it is not a stone, therefore under these conditions it doesn't miss me that superior distances can be reached to 1400 feet of distance

Therefore I reaffirm myself saying that a man with a sling and throwing a stone, don't a arrow, I doubt a lot that it overcomes the 650 feet of distance.

Greetins,
Vicente

Quote:

Vicente,

If you have some free time you could read following topics, lots of reading but perhaps they will be interesting for you.

Mentioned by David:

"World´s record holders"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10769733...

and

"Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10726483...

"David Engvall's GWR documentation"

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10788531...

Jurek

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Greetings,&&Vicente

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Matthias

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #41 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 9:57am

I think we all (even Vincente) have to agree that the above photo of Larry's sling meets the definition of a sling, if not the Balearic rules. This sling and red painted stone achieved an officially recorded distance of 1434´ - the stone weighs 2 oz.

The previous records were even more surprising to many of us:
- Vernon Morton: 847´ - 10 oz
- M. Gaylor: 1147´ - 7.5 oz

Those are some pretty heavy stones (not darts) to be slinging!

Quote:

Therefore I reaffirm myself saying that a man with a sling and throwing a stone, don't a arrow, I doubt a lot that it overcomes the 650 feet of distance.

Well, at least you are narrowing down your wording. Eventually, we might get you to accept:

Therefore I reaffirm myself saying that a man with a sling

made of natural fibres to traditional Balearic design and with folded length not greater than 1m

and throwing a

naturally occuring, unmodified stone of a type found in the Balearic islands

, I doubt a lot that it overcomes the 650 feet of distance

when thrown using the style of slinging adopted by Balearic reenactors competing in target competition at short range

.

I'm starting to think that the last bit might be the main problem here, as I think that you'll find that many of us would still argue that WE (not mythical world record holders) can sling that far under the other restrictions. Maybe you could post a video (or links to one) of your competitions?

If you want to see for yourself what a few changes in materials or techniques can make, go find a couple of 60-120g fishing weights and sling a few. I think you will surprise yourself. Likewise try slinging regular stones using a 1m sling of smaller/thinner size than the braided type - you'll get a range boost. Try an even longer sling and you might get another (though I don't). Browse through the site and look at some of the "long-range" slinging styles that are presented, again a range boost. Now combine all four with practice and phyisical conditioning and you might just be able to have a go at that record (no "darts" required)

Then come back and tell us what is and is not possible with a sling! I very much look forward to your report!

Matthias

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« Last Edit: Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 4:08pm by Matthias »

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Matthias

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #42 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 10:04am

My complaint against the Engval design isn't so much the dart (which I suspect actually may even cost distance over a well shaped ellipsoid) but the "trigger" release mechanism. I think a "true sling" (you know... the type we use to cast stones into the purifying waters of the sacred Duck Pond) should at least be capable of firing rocks. As for length and materials, I vote for whatever goes.

Matthias

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Zorrro

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Re: What is a sling?
Reply #43 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 11:29am

I agree with Matthias,.
i've used lot of different slings (different materials, different construction methods, different lenghts).... now i'm using just what i'm comfort with... i like leather looking but is difficult to find and rather expensive, and some of it wears out pretty soon.
I like natural fibers but they also wear too fast and can be a pain to braid if fibers are free. My last slings are of braided nylon cord, i find it cheap and wear resistant and easy to make.
Now i'm planning to make a short sling (nylon cord with fabric plaster pouch) for testing if accuracy is improoved.
also planing a short to medium sling with low air drag to try it with clay and lead glandes.
May be rules are good for competition but "no rules" (freedom) are good for evolution.

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Never disturb your enemy when it's making a mistake (Napoleon Bonaparte)

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mgreenfield Funditor Offline Posts: 509 Milwaukee Wisconsin Gender:	Re: What is a sling? Reply #44 - Jul 23^rd, 2004 at 11:35am Vincente, ....very much I would like to see pictures of the Balaeric slings, and movies of the Balaeric slinging style. Maybe these sacrifice some range, BUT get greatly increased accuracy. I would love to sling just 100-200 feet, BUT with much greater accuracy than I now get. mgreenfield
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