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apache method (Read 4565 times)
Zwiebeltuete
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Re: apache method
Reply #15 - Jun 23rd, 2006 at 1:17pm
 
I did it as siguy described with single threads, i.e. some centimeters before I want to have all threads added I start adding by doing:
  • add one thread, i.e. just put it next to the other in the to be moved strand without doing any knot
  • do one minor braiding step
  • add one thread
  • do one minor braiding step
  • ...

I did the adding to the strand braided next. When reducing the threads I do the same process reversed, i.e. cutting single threads of each minor step. So the cord gets gradually thicker and thinner around the pouch. When you are finished you can clean up protruding ends.

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Re: apache method
Reply #16 - Jun 23rd, 2006 at 8:13pm
 
Here is what Dale wrote to me when I asked him for help with Apache style. It helped a lot for me, so I just wanted others to get to read it. Smiley

Quote:
Gard,

God dag! Hvordan har du det?

And that entirely exhausts what I have learned of norsk...

I had to read Forsyth several times, in between slinging sessions, before I got it right.  It would have been easier had I been able to get some pictures of that old Mescalero gentleman.  I probably am not doing it just like he did, but I believe I am close.

You have the stance correct: about a 45-degree angle to the target, sling arm behind you so the prey cannot see it.  I hold my other arm in front of me, across my belly, not in back of me.  Your arm does not have to be out of sight; it seems sufficient that it not be visibly sticking out.  Prey animals apparently watch your eyes (which is why Forsyth advises not to stare at the animal) but are not good at picking out other details of your body.  But if you arm is sticking out to the side, that is enough to identify you as human/hunter/hungry/let's-get-out-of-here!

I tried putting my left arm behind me.  It put me off balance.  Also, I use my left arm to contribute to the twisting force as I throw.  Were it behind me, it would just hang there and contribute nothing.  Keeping your left arm behind you, is probably part of your difficulty.  

When I throw, I lift my sling arm up behind me, and twist my body to the left as my arm comes up and over my shoulder.  I'm keeping my arm straight (not rigid, but not bent).  My body, as it twists, transmits force to the stone just by pulling my arm (and the sling) around.  My arm moves just enough to transform my twisting motion, to a straight-ahead motion of the stone.  It is easier to do this than to describe it, so if it sounds confusing, do not worry: your body will do it naturally.

Returning to the matter of your arm: When I throw a stone, I naturally bend my arm as I bring it up; but when I start bringing my arm forward, I straighten it again.  This may be due to how I was taught to pitch a baseball.  With the Apache slinging style, there is no need to bend your arm and straighten it again.  Just keep it straight (but not stiff!).  In this style, your arm is just a part of your sling: you are throwing from the shoulder.  You will not get any greater speed or power by bending your arm.

After the release, my arm continues on down and across my body; I end up with my sling hand at my left hip.  I frequently slap the back of my head with the release knot, because the sling keeps on swinging around and up in back of me.

While I am doing what I so verbosely described above, my feet naturally twist on the ground, like a golfer (if you play golf).  I start with my weight balanced on both feet.  I end with my weight on my left foot, and my right foot has just the toes touching the ground.  Forsyth did not say anything about this, probably because he thought the right thing would happen naturally.  I could probably do the Apache style with a step forward, like a baseball pitcher, but Forsyth is right: doing so does slow me down.

Well, I hope some of this helps.  Good luck!

Adjø.  (Or is that too formal?)


Thanks, Dale!

Gard
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Re: apache method
Reply #17 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 5:10am
 
I use apache style mostly. If you practice often enough you will find your range improves quite a bit but never quite matches the range of the wind up styles.
I have found also that I now do not bring the sling straight over the top as I used to, it now comes over at a slight angle. This seems for me more natural, my accuracy has not decreased and my shots have a bit more power behind them.
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Re: apache method
Reply #18 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 5:50am
 
When we where in Antwerp I made some slinging videos of Grautr, here they are (again):
http://knopen.ismijnhobby.nl/diverse/MVI_3575.AVI ;
http://knopen.ismijnhobby.nl/diverse/MVI_3587.AVI

The second one may take long to download.

Willeke
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Re: apache method
Reply #19 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 9:55am
 
Quote:
When we where in Antwerp I made some slinging videos of Grautr, here they are (again):
http://knopen.ismijnhobby.nl/diverse/MVI_3575.AVI  
http://knopen.ismijnhobby.nl/diverse/MVI_3587.AVI

The second one may take long to download.

Willeke



one of the problems at Antwerp, I think we all suffered from, was wearing thick raincoats. I know it definatly affected my ability to sling by hampering my shoulder movements.
I must get round to posting some short videos of apache style slinging.
Its funny how we can all talk about apache style and know what it means. In another group I'm in, not related to slinging, I was talking about my hobby and style of slinging. I though I explained quite well what apache style meant but this didnt stop one, supposedly NA indian, accusing me of stealing and abusing native knowhow Smiley
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Re: apache method
Reply #20 - Jun 24th, 2006 at 12:27pm
 
Hmmm... the Apache style was introduced to us all by Larry Forsyth (a "paleface"), who was taught the style by a Mescalero*  gentleman of about 75 years of age.  Mr. Forsyth wrote that "Grandfather" (as he preferred to be called) was quite happy that someone was interested in learning the old skills.

It would seem that Grandfather did not share the possessiveness of the gentleman with whom you dealt, Grautr.  Rather, he was eager to pass on the skills that had served him.

*
one of several  Apache tribes.
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Re: apache method
Reply #21 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 7:15am
 
I'm experimenting with this style. I tried it on a park where a lot of people exercise there.(not an ideal place Tongue) The stones I slung nearly dropped onto someone's head. Shocked

Anyway, I tested my skill. The stones can reach about 20 metres in a high arc trajectory. That's not good enough, because I had not shorten my sling for that style. Roll Eyes It's a great style.
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Re: apache method
Reply #22 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 7:33am
 
20m is a woeful short distance - stephen hawking could throw one father than that.
we need to post videos of apache style,  as most of us have been learning from forsythe's description - hence large numbers of holes in the ground and hurt muscles in my case at least.
i intend to post such a video in the near future, as soon as i get a new SD card for the camera. this week for sure.

sv
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Re: apache method
Reply #23 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 7:52am
 
Maybe your problem is the "high arc". If you release it early it has not yet the best speed.

See e.g. the movies at http://www.mbsks.franken.de/slinging/slinging.html#Video060618

These are certainly not perfect, but I think they could help you.

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Re: apache method
Reply #24 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 9:17pm
 
I was trying my best to sling. I do not have place to practise, so I guess that's good enough for an amatuer. Roll Eyes I only slung 3 shots. No more slinging on that place! Tongue

8) I watched that video before. That's nice! 8) Nowadays, I practise indoors using a big ball of plasticine. I've to take care not to hit the main switch. Grin

I'll stick to this style. Unlike other styles, the Apache style slings immediately without
consuming
time. 8)

Grin edited: it's consuming, not wasting! Grin
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Re: apache method
Reply #25 - Jul 3rd, 2006 at 9:48pm
 
i was teaching a couple of boys how to sling earlier, one had a little trouble and one picked it up right away.  the one that had no trouble is the athetic type, so he has the timing down pat.  anyways, he instinctevely went for the apache method.  i find this interesting, as well as logical, because he has been playing baseball for years, so he naturally went for the most familiar type of motion.  he also shoots guns, so i just told him to use the same safety guidelines for slinging, which made my job easier.  anyways, he also went for the shortest  sling that i had, even though he prefered the solid pouch sling (the one he picked was my balearic style, but the cords were pretty short).  he did very well, and i think it was a good place for him to start.
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Re: apache method
Reply #26 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 11:59am
 
Quote:
I'm experimenting with this style. I tried it on a park where a lot of people exercise there.(not an ideal place Tongue) The stones I slung nearly dropped onto someone's head. Shocked

Anyway, I tested my skill. The stones can reach about 20 metres in a high arc trajectory. That's not good enough, because I had not shorten my sling for that style. Roll Eyes It's a great style.



with a bit of practice you can send a stone, apache style, 30 or 40 meters in a straight line with no arc. Shooting for distance, aiming high to arc a stone onto a target you can double the distance at least.
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Re: apache method
Reply #27 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 12:01pm
 
Quote:
i was teaching a couple of boys how to sling earlier, one had a little trouble and one picked it up right away.  the one that had no trouble is the athetic type, so he has the timing down pat.  anyways, he instinctevely went for the apache method.  i find this interesting, as well as logical, because he has been playing baseball for years, so he naturally went for the most familiar type of motion.  he also shoots guns, so i just told him to use the same safety guidelines for slinging, which made my job easier.  anyways, he also went for the shortest  sling that i had, even though he prefered the solid pouch sling (the one he picked was my balearic style, but the cords were pretty short).  he did very well, and i think it was a good place for him to start.




while showing my younger brother he immediatly went for a sidearm shot even though i only showed him overhand. I guess its best to start with what comes natural and I didnt try to change him.
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Re: apache method
Reply #28 - Jul 4th, 2006 at 9:52pm
 
yeah.  when the kids that are naturally overhand or underhand see me slinging and try to do the sidearm technique they are lousy at it, and i have to force them to stick with what they are good at.

it's kindof funny  Grin
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