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olaus magnus (Read 7986 times)
slingbadger
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olaus magnus
Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:50am
 
From the Description of the Northern people, by Olaus Magnus.

  He describes fustibals being used to fling chunks of red hot iron during the seige of King ChristianII at Vasteras

He also says that " pole Slings" were used by the Finns to  " drive back the preliminary assaults, then when they are about to contend at close quartersthey defended themselves with the sling stones they keep knotted in their belt."
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2006 at 2:22pm
 
that's interesting.  sling stones [/i]Knotted[i] in their belts?  that must not let you carry a lot of stones
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #2 - Jun 16th, 2006 at 3:38pm
 
He could mean carrying sling stones in the folds of thier tunics.

Marc Adkins

Quote:
that's interesting.  sling stones [/i]Knotted[i] in their belts?  that must not let you carry a lot of stones

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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #3 - Jun 17th, 2006 at 9:49am
 
  Alittle further translation reveals that apparently Christian lost the better part of his army to the hot iron, which " fell down as the hail does"
   Also, the Finns had stones the size of a fist, attatched to ropes that they would use to entangle the horsemen's arms or neck, then drag them off. That is, if they just weren't hit in the head in the process.

  Another onteresting point. The cheif helmet was a helmet with a leather backing, covered in scales of horn or the hooves of caribou.  Horned helmets. Sound familiar??
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The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #4 - Jun 17th, 2006 at 9:55am
 
Quote:
Another onteresting point. The cheif helmet was a helmet with a leather backing, covered in scales of horn or the hooves of caribou.  Horned helmets. Sound familiar??

no but interrested
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #5 - Jun 17th, 2006 at 6:21pm
 
Nice for those of us not up on our nordic history ( and too bleeping lazy to look it up) when was this siege again?

On the helment issue, sounds like they were trying to cheaply equip there soldiers. similar concept to 20th century miltary helments, enough protection against grazes and flying debris but not enough to take a full force direct blow

Marc Adkins

Quote:
 Alittle further translation reveals that apparently Christian lost the better part of his army to the hot iron, which " fell down as the hail does"
  Also, the Finns had stones the size of a fist, attatched to ropes that they would use to entangle the horsemen's arms or neck, then drag them off. That is, if they just weren't hit in the head in the process.

 Another onteresting point. The cheif helmet was a helmet with a leather backing, covered in scales of horn or the hooves of caribou.  Horned helmets. Sound familiar??

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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #6 - Jun 17th, 2006 at 6:24pm
 
Forgot to add
Intresting to here about the Finnish Bolos. Ok I know they are not true bolos but a nice little local improvision against a tactical problem.

Marc Adkins

Quote:
 Alittle further translation reveals that apparently Christian lost the better part of his army to the hot iron, which " fell down as the hail does"
  Also, the Finns had stones the size of a fist, attatched to ropes that they would use to entangle the horsemen's arms or neck, then drag them off. That is, if they just weren't hit in the head in the process.

 Another onteresting point. The cheif helmet was a helmet with a leather backing, covered in scales of horn or the hooves of caribou.  Horned helmets. Sound familiar??

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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #7 - Jun 18th, 2006 at 12:01pm
 
A thick enoughpiece of horn can deflect sword blows quite nicely. I've tried it . There was also an example of one dug up in Denmark. ( give me a few days to look through my files)
   What it was was sheets of horn, with the grain layed in opposite directioins, like plywood. Very strong. Very light.
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The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #8 - Apr 13th, 2008 at 5:14am
 
I might get the original Latin text from a book printed in 1555 (1st Edition) if needed. But here's a woodcut of the siege.

...
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2008 at 9:19am
 
so is a fustibals just a staff sling ?

But it just shows what finnish history shows time and time again - don't pick a fight with finland. :-)
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #10 - Apr 14th, 2008 at 1:28pm
 
To answer both of your questions C_A

Pretty much dead on the money on both.

Marc Adkins
[quote author=curious_aardvark link=1150386644/0#9 date=1208179168]so is a fustibals just a staff sling ?

But it just shows what finnish history shows time and time again - don't pick a fight with finland. :-)[/quote]
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #11 - Apr 15th, 2008 at 3:04pm
 
slingbadger,

the part about the Finnish entangling the enemies horses with stones fixed with ropes reminds me to the use of the bola. Can you please give a precise quotation of that text?

The stones knotet into the belts might be used as a hand to hand combat weapon. If you put a stone into the (not too small and narrow) pouch of your sling and knot just the release cord and the retention cord together you will get a flexible weapon you can heavily beat with or wrap it around the enemies lance, axe sword, neck or leg for making him falling.

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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #12 - Apr 16th, 2008 at 7:55am
 
Again, I can probably get the original latin text if needed from Finnish National Library.

Hirvonen, K., Vilkuna K. 1977. Pohjoisten kansojen historia: Suomea koskevat kuvaukset. Otava, Helsinki:

P. 54-55. About sorcery at Hälsingland.

Quote:
Magic or witchcraft is also practiced among the people of Hälsingland. One of their chiefs, Vitulf, could destroy one's sight so the victim couldn't even se the buildings nearby. Also a man called Visin, a famous swordman, could make dull one's weapon with his eyes. However he was slayed by a Swedish Berserker called Starkad. He always kept the sword covered with very fine coat which is generally known to be the only way to protect it against the dullness.

But even magic or spells can't protect rocks slinged with force from making damage.


P. 89. About the Muscovian pirates at the Gulf of Finland.

Quote:
Encouraged by the previous success the Muscovians are so bold that they'll attack even the largest vessels slowed down by the calm wind. Then they try to bruise the planks at the waterline. But if the crew fires them from above with arrows they try to retreat. Rarely a victory will follow, usually they are chased away with cannons, crossbows and slings.


P. 91-92. About Finns and their weapons.

Quote:
Due of the excessive wildness among the Finns or the Finno-Ugric people the Royal regulation has forbited them using weapons like lance, arrows, throwing spears or long daggers against themselfs during peace time. However one should't think they haven't got any defence weapons to protect themselfs against raiding Muscovians who live too close. The first attacks are averted with staff slings. At close combat the Finns defend themselfs with slinging stones stuffed to belts. They (Finns) are so strong and so accurate that they never miss their target. [...]

Some use fist-size rocks which are attached with rope four span (span is c. 15-20 cm) long (when they haven't got any iron or lead balls or iron chain). With these they entangle the arms of cavalrymen or the feet of horses and then tackle them with yanking the rope.
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« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2008 at 9:09am by Mangrove »  

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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #13 - Apr 16th, 2008 at 9:03am
 
Funda, give me a day or two
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The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
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Re: olaus magnus
Reply #14 - Apr 16th, 2008 at 11:49pm
 
Ok so what is the Finnish word for staff-Sling and what would the Russian word be???

Marc Adkins

Mangrove wrote on Apr 16th, 2008 at 7:55am:
Again, I can probably get the original latin text if needed from Finnish National Library.

P. 91-92. About Finns and their weapons.

Quote:
Due of the excessive wildness among the Finns or the Finno-Ugric people the Royal regulation has forbited them using weapons like lance, arrows, throwing spears or long daggers against themselfs during peace time. However one should't think they haven't got any defence weapons to protect themselfs against raiding Muscovians who live too close. The first attacks are averted with staff slings. At close combat the Finns defend themselfs with slinging stones stuffed to belts. They (Finns) are so strong and so accurate that they never miss their target. [...]

Some use fist-size rocks which are attached with rope four span (span is c. 15-20 cm) long (when they haven't got any iron or lead balls or iron chain). With these they entangle the arms of cavalrymen or the feet of horses and then tackle them with yanking the rope.

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