Slinging.org Forum - amentum, part 2

slingbadger

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amentum, part 2
May 31^st, 2006 at 11:18am

A while ago, I talked about working with an amentum. It is a long thong that is wrapped around a javelin, then used like an atlatl. When it is launched, the javelin spins and the distance of the throw is increased.
I just got done using it on a 54 inch javelin, and it works great. The spin keeps it on track, and my throws were over 40 feet without me even trying.
The secret, I found out, is where the strap is attatched to the shaft. Measure the javelin, then figure out 1/5 of the length. Place the thong at a point 1/5 the way up from the back. That is a "pivot point".
It's funny that that is also the pivot point for a trebuchet shaft.

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siguy Interfector Viris Spurii Offline si vis pacem para bellum Posts: 1714 connecticut Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #1 - May 31^st, 2006 at 3:37pm what if you have a spike attached to the tip, which i find moves the center of balance about a fist (mine) forward. should i move the measurement a fist forward? that is great, what you have done. good work. can't wait to hear you record distances.
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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Offline Posts: 2323 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #2 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 4:52am Can you film yourself doing that on video? That'd be awesome to see!
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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Offline Posts: 2323 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #3 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 9:25am I have one more question. This "Amentum" thing, is it the same as a "French Arrow"?
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siguy Interfector Viris Spurii Offline si vis pacem para bellum Posts: 1714 connecticut Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #4 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 2:51pm not really. from what i understand, the french arrow takes the string with it, but the amentum is more like an atlatl.
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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Offline Posts: 2323 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #5 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 8:22pm Ah, I see. Thanks siguy. So the amentum must have more range than the french arrow then? Would it be harder to use?
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Leeds_Lobber

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Re: amentum, part 2
Reply #6 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 5:44am

No, the French Arrow does NOT take the string with it.

As fgar as I can see the difference is in the attachment - Slingbadger is wrapping the cord around the shaft a number of times to 'grip' the javelin until the point of release. A French Arrow uses a knot which is held to the shaft until the point of release by the friction of a single wrap of the cord.

Pat

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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Offline Posts: 2323 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #7 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 7:14am I'm confused again. So they both are like a "string" atlatl. The difference is one wraps around many times and the other only once and with a knot. In both cases the arrow spins and have increased range. How does it compare with a dart thrown by an atlatl in power and distance?
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slingbadger

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Re: amentum, part 2
Reply #8 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 8:59am

The amentum does take the string with it. As for the balance point question, my advice is to temporarily bind the amentum thong to the shaft, and try it. if that works for you, fine. Then make it permanent.
I also tried the thong at the end of the shaft, to make it more like that atlatl that we know. It doesn't work. At least for me. The reason the atlatl works is A. the arrows or spears are pretty lightweight, as compared to a javelin. B. The atlatl is a solid board, and relies on that to help provide the thrust. The amentum, being a leather strap, relies a little more on the arm, and the last second wrist action to make it work.

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The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?

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slingbadger Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Don't Badger a Badger Posts: 3220 Akron NY Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #9 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 9:01am As for video/ pictures, I will have to blackmai-- ooops I mean ask a friend to help me.
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Leeds_Lobber Guest	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #10 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 3:22pm Sounds like you need to practice to get the French Arrow method correct. I am currently throwing steel rod with it, the weight of the projectile does not affect the technique. Pat
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Tint Interfector Viris Spurii Past Moderator Offline Posts: 2323 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #11 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 11:07pm So how does the french arrow compare to the amentum in Range, accuracy and killing power? How does the two compare to the atlatl? Leeds lobber, Can you show us a picture?
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Leeds_Lobber Guest	Re: amentum, part 2 Reply #12 - Jun 3^rd, 2006 at 5:05am I will try...... will come back to you I have not USED an armentum, so I can't give you a comparison. Pat
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Red_Harvest

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Re: amentum, part 2
Reply #13 - Jun 9^th, 2006 at 2:21am

slingbadger,

I've been wanting to try this, and have got some literature thanks to posters here and elsewhere, but have not had much chance to fiddle with the amentum yet.

In the two articles I have and in books the amentum varies considerably. One depiction uses an amentum with a grip more forward and a string running the length of the shaft tied near the basis. This looks more atlatl like to me.

The other references all have the amentum on a short loop probably 1/3rd the distance from the base, with hand grip near or just behind the center of gravity.

About your javelin...what are you using for a head and shaft? Are you tapering it from a thicker point near the center, or is this essentially a dowel with a head.

I've been putzing about with a 48" long broom handle with a tennis ball for a head (and a little sand to make it tip heavy.) I can do 30 yards fairly well with no amentum, but this "javelin" is short and not properly balanced. It's also probably a good half pound heavier than it should be (a broom handle is a lot stiffer than what a javelin needs to be, hence a thicker shaft?) Assuming that I put together something more aesthetically pleasing and functional, I would like to try the amentum as well to see what difference it makes.

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slingbadger

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Re: amentum, part 2
Reply #14 - Jun 9^th, 2006 at 8:51am

Red. Mine is made from a dowel rod, using a throwing knife as the blade. Only the actual blade is showing, the rest is sunk into the shaft.
My leather cord is placed at 1/5 the length of the overall spear. That's on the end. That seems to work best. If you have John Warry's book on ancient arms and armor, it shows the throwing process. That works best, with a minimum of wear and tear. ( important in a 40 year old badger!)
I am going to try actual targeting this weekend at an SCA event. We'll see what happens.

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The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?

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