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easy measure of power. (Read 5056 times)
slingbadger
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easy measure of power.
May 27th, 2006 at 3:12pm
 
Looking at the papers and the discussions here, I see 2 main ways of calculating the power of a sling. Foot-pounds and joules.
  While these are good for people who understand it, I frequently do demos for Boy and Cub Scouts. Does anyone know how I can tell them what the power is in terms that a common person would understand ( say like PSI, or anything else) ???
  It just makes it easier for people to understand.
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Willeke
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #1 - May 27th, 2006 at 4:23pm
 
I think it would be helpfull for people like me if you can compare it to a known force. Like 'it hits like a car doing 60 km/h or 40 mph' but in many cases that will be hard.
I have do the needed subjects in school, but I still do not really understand netwon, joule and so on.

Willeke
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2006 at 5:36pm by Willeke »  

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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #2 - May 27th, 2006 at 5:22pm
 
Newton is the unit for force. If you hold 1kg here on earth it pulls down with nearly 10 Newton. On the moon it's less.

Feeling Joule is more problematic, but to understand the power of the sling it is probably helpful to compare it to .22 cal. rifles. I found for these an energy of 100-220J. A skillful slinger should come into that range. (For military high power ammunition I found energies up to 10,000J.)

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Willeke
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #3 - May 27th, 2006 at 5:35pm
 
Having no experience with guns of any kind seeing a mention of .22 is as clear as mud.
And many scouts/schoolkids all over Europe will have as much experience with guns as I do, so that is not really helpfull for them either.

Would there be an every day experience for most people?

Zwiebeltuete,
I am thankfull for your attempt to help, but I was mainly using myself as an example.
If I do not understand it, most kids will have like problems, I think.

Willeke
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #4 - May 27th, 2006 at 5:58pm
 
Joules and Foot-pounds are measures of energy, not force, but there is an easy way to understand this. You can think of energy being either stored, like an elastic, or in terms of how fast something is moving, like a sling stone (kinetic energy). An even simpler way to think of stored (potential) energy is to imagine lifting a weight to a certain height. It takes work to get it up there right?

When we say that a glande hits with 100 ft-lbs of energy, we are really talking about a combination of how heavy the rock is and how fast it is going. Speed is more important than weight in this case. The energy stored is exactly the same as the amount that you would need to lift a 100 pound weight 1 foot high, or a 1 pound weight 100 ft, or a 5 pound weight 20 feet. Drop it from that height and you get the energy back as speed when it hits the ground. 100 ft-lbs is pretty significant, you don't want it to, say, land on your foot.

Joules are the metric way of measuring energy. It actually makes life much easier since metric doesn't confuse mass and weight like certain other systems, but in this case it is just slightly tricky, since most people "weigh" things in kilograms instead of Newtons. A Joule can be expressed as mass*acceleration*distance. If we use the lifted rock potential energy example, the acceleration in the formula is just gravity, which is close enough to 10  (~9.81). To use the same analogy, then, we can say that a 136 Joules is like a kilogram dropped from 13.6m high.

(1 foot-pound is close to 1.36 Joules)

Matthias
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #5 - May 27th, 2006 at 6:00pm
 
I do also not know how much damage a .22 rifle does, but it is probably the rifle with the lowest power available. The comparision with a small caliber rifle is the best I know. Pistols for kids are here allowed to have up to 7 J. Saying that a sling has 50 times the power of a kids pistol probably doesn't help. Saying it has about as much power as a bow does only shift the problem. And saying the energy of a sling bullet could warm a cup of water by X °C is probably also for nobay helpful.

What a kid should understand is, that a rifle can hurt and kill.

Zwiebeltuete
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #6 - May 28th, 2006 at 1:01am
 
    ??? Sad Undecided ???                                                                     
     Jeez, People, now you've got ME confused.                               
         I am accustomed to comparing the performance of different calibers by looking at ballistics tables, which here in the US conventionally list both kinetic energy in foot-pounds and velocity in feet-per-second, whereas in Europe, Joules and meters-per-second are used. But you are right, this only makes sense because these numbers are familiar to me.                                              
         If I might make a suggestion: maybe DISTANCE is something most people would relate to better. I have had a couple of occasions to demonstrate my sling and I would throw a rock BY HAND, and then throw another rock of similar size and weight with my sling. People will OOOO!! and AAAAHH!! when they see the rock fly twice or three times as far as a rock thrown by hand.                                           
         This is, of course, a relatively crude measure of "power" but at least it is easy for everyone to see.                          .......Dan
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #7 - May 28th, 2006 at 10:36am
 
Shoot some metal glandes through sheet steel.... that will get it across. Also, throw a rock at a tree across a pond.... The echoing CRACK is a pretty good indication of power as well.
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #8 - May 28th, 2006 at 10:37am
 
Quote:
And saying the energy of a sling bullet could warm a cup of water by X °C is probably also for nobay helpful.



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Dale
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #9 - May 28th, 2006 at 3:31pm
 
Slinger_Man_Dan,

Mgreenfield suggested this method of measuring the power of a sling, relative to your unaided arm, some time back.  He even devised a name for the measurement, "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown", or O-SAST.  I just posted a "bring to top" message in that topic.
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #10 - May 28th, 2006 at 5:34pm
 
Just for reference a newton is the force it takes to accelerate a 1kg mass by 1m/sec each second it is applied.
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slingbadger
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #11 - May 30th, 2006 at 9:10am
 
Isn't it possible to use a PSI measurment?
Mass x velocity = impact inPSI?
  Seems like it would be easy.
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Dale
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #12 - May 30th, 2006 at 9:52am
 
If you want to measure impact pressure in pounds per square inch, you need to know the mass and velocity of the slung stone/glande/whatever, and also its size.
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Willeke
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #13 - May 30th, 2006 at 12:03pm
 
And what is more, your public must understand it too.
Most schoolkids do not understand forces like that.

Willeke
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Re: easy measure of power.
Reply #14 - May 30th, 2006 at 12:12pm
 
i don't understand it either for that matter but all those things seem coolish Tongue Lol:D
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