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Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket (Read 24411 times)
Whipartist
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2004 at 5:06am
 
http://www.mcmastercarr.com

Type in aircraft cable in the search field.  Man they sell this stuff in so many varieties!  Even teflon coating.  Talk about aerodynamic huh?  It looks like we have options if we want to go this route.

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Yurek
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #16 - Jan 2nd, 2004 at 5:41pm
 
Ben,

I appreciate your taking interests very much. You have a great part in my thinking about the attempt alredy. It would be nicely to have the sling made by you, but I don't want to cause your expenses. Thanks for the nice offering. Of course, your and others' hints are welcomed always. Another potential pretenders could use it too.

I looked at this link, the excellent choice. I like 7x19 - 0.40" stainless steel wire with teflon coat. I suppose the thiner one make no sense. I just found in my country 7x19 - 1mm (~0.040") bare stainless wire, It costs 0.54 Euro (0.68$) per metre, it is much cheaper than previous one (1.50 per ft) and the delivery is more easy. I think that one is ok too. It will be like a scythe Smiley

Jeff and mgreenfield mentioned about fishing matherials. I'm afraid too, they will too elastic, thin, and flexble, so will tend to making thenars. Maybe I'm wrong, have no experience with such stuff.

Jurek


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« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2004 at 6:45pm by Yurek »  

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Whipartist
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #17 - Jan 2nd, 2004 at 10:25pm
 
Jurek,

The stainless wire seems good if it's 7x19.  The one I have for the sling I made doesn't have that many strands.  The more strands the better, I think.  I think it makes it more flexable and crimp less.  Don't forget to buy the little sleeves that you use to put it together.  I used a vice to crimp them, but I think there is a tool.  If you have any trouble just ask me and I'll make you one myself.  I'm glad to help, I like having a hand in all of this.

                                         Ben
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Yurek
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 8:57pm
 
7x19 is able to work on pulleys.  For example, it is used as halliards on sailing boats. There is interesting way of conection the steel wire with rope. It is the special braiding. It would be fine to link the stainless wires with the rope endings of the sling. Maybe I will try to do it,  if I get that one. But I'm afraid that it may be very difficult with such thin wire.

...

Jurek
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2005 at 6:44pm by Yurek »  

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #19 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 9:49pm
 
Jurek,

Hey that's a beautiful connection.  I know a few but was too lazy to try them.  That one looks better than the ones I was thinking of.  I hope it really works well for you.  I'm excited to see how much range it adds to your throw.

                                     Ben
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #20 - Jan 4th, 2004 at 10:52pm
 
For research, and for record attempts, how about we work in two areas like this:

1/ "Standard" Design Class slings.  Units measuring not more than 1.25meters from center of pocket (or equivalent), to center of release cord knot.

2/ "Unlimited" Design Class slings.   Whatever length someone manages to swing.

All slinging distances measured on level ground.  No platforms.  No specs on ammo size, material, shape.   All postings to mention center-of-pocket-to-knot distance on the sling being discussed.

mgreenfield
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Chris
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #21 - Jan 6th, 2004 at 5:32pm
 
Wow, this is pretty exciting.  I've always wanted to make one of these super-light slings.  Ben and Jurek, those are hansom looking slings.  I really like that wire lovelock pouch!  Steel cabling is heavier then spider wire of just plain fishing line.  If you really want to maximize the force getting put into the sling, I'd just the latter two.  Maybe a bradded or thicker version if it isn't strong enough.  If Jurek can get near to 500m with the sling he posted a picture of, I think he can exceed 600m with one of these light-slings. 

Can anyone follow up on what exactly the world record is and if there are any projectile weight classes?

Exciting! Go Jurek! 
Chris

P.S. Don't forget about us when you hold the record.   Grin
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Yurek
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #22 - Jan 7th, 2004 at 7:14pm
 
I'm very curious how such sling is efficient too. I can't get the suitable stainless wire in the local hardware stores and I'm too impatient to buy that one via internet, so I decided to use just the fishing-line. I have got some just today. It is very thin, soft  and slippery but strong thread. I'm thinking over a way of making the sling of it. Knots which I know are sliping out. So I think braiding will be necessary. Maybe it would be good to use the balearic way of braiding (dividual tress)  Undecided I have no experience with braiding and I'm somewhat afraid it will be very toiful for me. Does anybody know a better way for the lazy man?

Jurek

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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #23 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 1:36am
 
Jurek,

My only thoughts about fishing line are that I'm afraid the sling may twist when it's used?  But it's worth a try.  Here's how I'd do it.

Braiding will take too long.  Twisting is better.  Take 4 strands of 10' each. 

Start by making the split cradle.

To do this, divide them into two groups of 2 strands. 

Go to the center (cradle) section of each group and twist the two strands together loosely for 3"

(You can twist strands together by taking each strand in either hand, and twisting them in the opposite direction as you intend their composite twist to be.  Just like rope.  You know.)

Take the two groups of strands and put them side by side after you've twisted each section of the cradle.

(So we are taking 4 strands and making them into 2 sections in the middle and then 1 on either side of the cradle.)

Make a regular overhand knot on both sides of the cradle. 

The knot is done by taking the 4 strands, making a loop with them, and putting the end of the strands through the loop and pulling tight. 

Do that on both sides of your cradle.

Then take each set of 4 strands and divide them into 2 groups of 2. 

Twist them together for 4' out and tie a knot.

Do this on both sides.

Then attach your rope ends for the loop and release cord.

I hope that was clear?  It works in my mind but it's hard to write out.

                             Ben
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #24 - Jan 8th, 2004 at 9:34pm
 
Ben,

Your post has rescused me from deadly entanglin myself SmileyThanks! It was clear for me. Here is the result:

...

It rather does't look militantly.

Actually I have no lead glandes, and the stones are hidden under snow. So I sended only a few patatos into the dark wood this evening. They flied prety long. You was right, this sling tends to twisting oscilations due to the supple stings. Tangling doesn't seem a great problem. It is quite silent and slinging is strange, require some habituation. It's difficult to believe, how something like that could send projectiles so far!  I hope I will get time for making the new mold and projectiles soon. If so, I will let you all know more about its efficiency.

Jurek
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« Last Edit: May 7th, 2005 at 6:43pm by Yurek »  

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #25 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 2:02am
 
Jurek,

Awesome!  I'm glad it worked for you.  If it doesn't tangle, it looks like it will be very efficient!  Let us know if it's any better than a regular sling, once you make the glandes!  I'm excited to find out.

I know what you mean about it being strange to use.  The pull from the back is hard to do because it's sooo fast already.  It changes slinging around some, so I don't know if it will be better or worse for distance!  Maybe a slower windup will help? 

                                     Ben
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #26 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 3:29pm
 
The short story of the short life of my newest super sling. hehe

Just today,  eager of next tests of the "fishing sling" I took some potatos, a few beautiful shaped, smooth stones (from my small "emerency reserve" for "secial occasions"), and went to the secluded spot. I wanted to see how it would be work used with a full power. First, for warming-up I started throwing the potatos (it was specific way of winter additional animals feeding;). And what appears, this sling worked like a slicer. The potatos flied out as three pieces, often before the release. The first stone finished my play and the short life of my newest sling, it tore off the release twine just behind the split cradle and kidnaped that somewhere.

Well, me thinks the next "supersonic" sling must be more solid and stiff. Too slender cords don't enable a control of the pouch angle which is especially important for elongated glandes. The soft stainless steel wire or something like that seems the best, however.

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Whipartist
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #27 - Jan 9th, 2004 at 6:43pm
 
Jurek,

I'm sorry to hear it broke Undecided   I hope you're able to get the stuff you need for the sling in good time.  I think that 7x19 stuff should be good.  In the meantime, don't pull a muscle out there in that freezing weather!  Potato slicing huh!  LOL 

                                       Ben
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #28 - Jan 11th, 2004 at 1:13am
 
When I made my 9 foot sling, the drag on the cords and pouch was very noticeable.  I think a 9 foot sling using this type of design and materials would generate enormous power (and range).  I was about to throw bricks about 200 feet (and I don't have range like Yurek even with regular stones), so smaller lead projectiles would just fly.

Maybe you could whip up a conventional 9 foot sling and see how you get on with it Yurek?

Chris
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Yurek
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Re: Air Drag On Sling Cords & Pocket
Reply #29 - Jan 11th, 2004 at 8:18pm
 
Chris,

Once upon a time I tried to sling with my prolongated conventional sling. I simply pieced some rope on to each cord. I don't remember exactly how long this sling was, maybe something about my height. You are right, that one gave adventage for heavy stones (the main acceleration is durring twisting, not durring the whip) which I couldn't whip well with the normal-lenght sling.  However, when used the optimal weight stones I wasn't able to whip dinamically. The sling seemed as if it didn't keep up, was too lazy, I hadn't a good "connection" with the stone.

Probably there was three reasons together:
1. too stretchy cords
2. too big air drag
3. too big ratio of the sling to my arm lenght.

The factors 1 and 2 should be minimalized, we know. But finding the best lenght of a sling is more difficult. I suppose there is the optimal lengh for a specified slinging way,  body construction and projectile mass, due to the projecile speed, of course.

If even factors 1 and 2 would be null and a mass of the sling would be null, then we couldn't prolong the cords overmuch, if we would like to get the dynamic whip. Finding an optimal projectile mass and sling lenght is an interesting question for physicists and biophysicist. Maybe some day they will expolore a sling, but nowadays we only may experiment alone and axchange experiences.

Durring my last tests with glandes I used 50" sling. I feel that it is close to the optimal lenght, maybe not exacty, for such sling design and mass of used projectiles. When I make the new good aerodynamic sling and the new lead projectiles, I will try to lenghten the sling, as you Chris mentioned, but 9 feet seems to be too long for me.

Jurek.
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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