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Velocity and Penetration (Read 31570 times)
Curious Aardvark
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #75 - May 24th, 2008 at 9:49am
 
lol yeah even I wouldn't hold a target for someone to sling at. Slingshot - no problem, you seen the new ones with a laser red dot. seriously neat.

I'm not saying the guy couldn't do it - just that those particular video clips don't convince me :-)
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Dale
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #76 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 1:37pm
 
My two cents ... I have done a bit of research on Dr. Stacy Groscup, and I have read several accounts written by folks who had met him and watched him demonstrate his prowess with a bow.  By all accounts he actually could hit aspirin tablets or flying insects in mid-air.  He also was reputed by those people to be an honest man.  The idea of him participating in a fraudulent demonstration of the sling, strikes me therefore as unlikely.  I suspect that he could, and did, hit those pine boards with a sling (or more precisely, with lead shot slung from a sling).

That said, it is clear from the video that the sequence of events was edited and/or there were two cameras.  Dr. Groscup's slinging technique was viewed from his left.  The impacts on boards held in someone's hand, were taken from a point of view downrange and to Dr. Groscup's right (the shot enter the frame from the left).  If there was just one camera available, then the filming would be done in two stages: one set of takes showing Groscup slinging, and another set showing the target as he slung a second round of shots.

Similarly, the gentleman slinging at a melon, was probably done in two or three takes: one shot from in front of him showing his technique, a second shot from behind showing the melon, and a third shot (or the same shot viewed by a second camera) showing the stone flying and striking the melon.

Video editing does not necessarily invalidate any demonstration of skill; it does, however, require validation of the honesty of the performer and of the video folks.  I agree that a single take, with no cuts or interruptions, is preferable.

By the way, apologies for the ambiguity of "shot".  I hope you can infer correctly when I am talking about a small lead sphere, about the slinging of same, and about recording said events on film/tape/whatever.  I could have been more precise, but this is more than sufficiently verbose already.
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Dale
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #77 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 11:39pm
 
Hey!  I just ran across an animated video on YouTube, that is a reasonably accurate account of David and Goliath (that is, it is reasonably close to what Samuel recorded in his first book):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RD0xCmlZcg

The armor may not be historically accurate, but the sequence of events is correct.  It starts with David arguing his case with Saul, shows David trying on Saul's armor (it doesn't fit at all and would be a hazard to him in the field), shows David facing Goliath and Goliath's shield bearer, shows that Goliath's sword was in the scabbard (he was going to spit that pipsqueak with his spear), shows David's stone hitting Goliath above the eyes and sticking in his forehead, and shows David removing Goliath's head with Goliath's own sword.  The slinging style is even reasonable; it is a sidearm style with just a couple of windup spins
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No, I don't live in a glass house.&&&&"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."&&&&Context matters!  "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...
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peacefuljeffrey
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #78 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 1:47am
 
Sandbumoen wrote on Apr 4th, 2004 at 12:17pm:
Yea, the crack you can hear with whips is the end breaking the sound barrier.

Chris



How strange -- check this out.

I wanted to get myself convinced, if possible, that it really was a breaking-of-the-sound-barrier that caused a whip's crack.  I was skeptical because I have found lots of old beliefs debunked in my time, and I thought, why would the tip have to break the sound barrier in order to sound? Hands clap and they don't have to do so.

So I tried Snopes.com first.  Nothing there.
I tried Google by searching for "whip crack sound barrier" or something close to that.  I found a scientific article that mentioned someone who had done research on the cause of a whip's crack.  there was a comments section, and the only comment left was by a whipmaker and enthusiast.

And on his site was a link to his mini-biography.  Guess what else he's into!  Wink
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wanderer
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #79 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:46am
 
Whipartist (Ben Scott) was about on this forum until a bit ago.

Maybe we'll see him about here again. Smiley Nice to see that he has 'unretired' himself.

There's good evidence that the tip of a whip can travel going on to twice the speed of sound when it cracks. Cool
     http://www.npr.org/programs/wesat/features/2002/june/whip/index.html
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Thomas
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #80 - Sep 30th, 2008 at 1:01pm
 
The above link leads into a detailed study of the dynamics of stretched rubber bands.              

http://www.hiviz.com/PROJECTS/BAND/band.htm

If any of you pursue the mischievous path try the old stunt of stretching just one side of a rubber band. If one is right handed loop the band over left thumb and index finger to the extent where you create some tension.  Next place the banded hand with palm facing forward. Place the right forefinger under the left thumb and onto the front band element. Extend forefinger toward potential target and at the same time let the band slip off the left finger. Pull back and release from thumb.
Like I said, this is really old like rubber.  
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« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2008 at 6:19pm by Thomas »  
 
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #81 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 1:17pm
 
Quote:
Thom Richardson, from the British Royal Armory was the slinger. His only reached 67MPH. They were trying to break a pig skull with it. As a result, the sling was regarded as ineffective. At that sped, i don't doubt it.


I wouldn't want to go up against a wild pig with nothing but a sling.  Maybe a spear.
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #82 - Nov 10th, 2008 at 3:02pm
 
Asleepundertrees wrote on Nov 10th, 2008 at 1:17pm:
[quote]Thom Richardson, from the British Royal Armory was the slinger. His only reached 67MPH. They were trying to break a pig skull with it. As a result, the sling was regarded as ineffective. At that sped, i don't doubt it.


http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=TVPeOE7Wgsk

Go here to see what a good sling shot can do to a pig skull.
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squirrelslinger
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #83 - Feb 11th, 2013 at 2:42am
 
[quote author=curious_aardvark link=1146852045/30#37 date=1205675585]hmm, well the typical weight for a sling glande was 1 1/2 - 2 ounces. so nearer 50 grams than 75. And yes it makes a difference as to the reachable velocity of the slung missile.
Not arguing that  a slung missile is lethal.

But you just don't get the penetration you get with a firearm. So while a lucky head shot might kill someone, you are far more likely to cause broken bones or deep internal bruising.

That said at short range I've seen a 3/4 inch ball bearing go straight through a 3/4 inch sheet of plywood. Dunno what that equates to but you wouldn't get me standing in front of larry bray with a ball bearing and a sling - no matter what body armour you had on hand :-)  (unless someone else tested it first lol)
[/quote]
1 and 1/2 ounces??? WHAT SORT OF AMMO IS THAT????
I am used to 6-8 oz stone... with my bigger slings(>40 inches) upwards of a pound. I can crack 2 inches of steel-reinforced concrete in 1 shot, put a hole in it in 3 shots.
This is slinging hard quartz ammo.
-Squirrel
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squirrelslinger
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Re: Velocity and Penetration
Reply #84 - Feb 11th, 2013 at 2:49am
 
Aussie wrote on May 19th, 2008 at 5:25am:
Now TS old mate, don't shoot the messenger. I at no time claimed or implied that hitting a moving (or any) target was easy, or that I could do it. What I said was that Goliath allowed himself to be defeated easily. (Now I also know you Americans have just about abandoned adverbs in favour of adjectives but "easily" is not the same as "easy".)

What is clear is that Goliath was not prepared for what was coming. He was not crouched behind his shield or apparently taking any measures to defend himself against what was coming. It appears the whole encounter lasted only a few minutes. In that sense Goliath was defeated easily. To face such a killer was undoubtedly an extraordinary act of courage and the slinging skill, especially the accuracy was also extraordinary. However I am also sure that many of the slingers on this forum, you definitely included as I have said before, would be capable of slinging powerfully enough. The thing that I have yet to see is a slinger who can consistently put in a first shot that would be accurate enough. Your Dr Groscup may be this man but the shots shown on the video, all hyperboles aside, would not have been nearly powerful to crack Goliath's skull.

As far as me facing Goliath, if he would kindly consent to standing absolutely still and not waving his arms about or doing anything else to distract or frighten me, I am fairly sure I could also eventually knock him down. But I do not claim to be a particularly good or strong slinger. Chronologically I am definitely on the decline, nor was I ever particularly sports minded.

When you say I am acting as devil's advocate you are right. To make matters worse I am an Australian devil's advocate. I believe the Bible to be true but generally Australia is a particularly secular society, religion is often viewed as suspect and a conjob. That's why I cosidered the video counter productive because I know that in Australia it would attract derision as religious crap, for the reasons I listed before, rather than conviction that the story of David's defeating Goliath is perfectly plausible. If I was to show my workmates any video to demonstrate how potentially destructive a sling can be it would be your own.

I have found that my first shot can hit, the others are more than 20 feet away. This is not just joking, this is actully consistant. I still do not know how I do it.
-Squirrel
As in, I use a 2x2 foot target. I sling golf-balls for accuracy. I can stand more than 30 meters away and nail this thing with my first shot of the day. Cannot do it agian, sometimes when I get up , sling, do HW, etc for 6-7 hours, and then sling I can do it twice....

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“Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
"You don't think the electricity is off. You check it 3 times to make SURE its off"
"Remember, this is not a scalpel. It is a steel wedge that you will be slamming into knotty wood. Hone accordingly."
 
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