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"Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SAST) (Read 4632 times)
mgreenfield
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"Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SAST)
Apr 29th, 2006 at 12:41pm
 
Fellow Slingsters, ...

To really know how well we are doing, we need a way to communicate with some kind of precision:

1/ How much more/less powerful one sling design might be than another.

2/ How much more/less powerful one technique might be than another.

3/ How much more/less efficient one slingster might be than another in converting body strength to slinging power.

This has nothing do do with accuracy.  We'll simply measure range, and infer power from that.  This has nothing to do with ammo material or shape.

I propose the "O-SAST System".   It works this way:

1/ We pitch selected ammo with a particular sling or technique, and pace off how far the average shot seems to go.

2/ We pitch the same ammo by hand; with no sling.  We can throw any way we want.

3/ We figure the multiplier that the sling gives us over the hand-toss.   

For example, if I sling 2oz tennis balls 50 paces, but can throw them 29 paces, my O-SAST is 50/29=1.7.

This lets big/small, old/young strong/weak slingsters make direct comparisons of how good a job they're doing.

Of course, for O-SAST to be meaningful, we'd also need to describe:

1/ The sling (mostly length).
2/ The technique & grip
3/ The ammo used

CHRIS, ...wonder if we can set up a table of some kind to keep track of these x3 items, plus the O-SAST multipliers, slingster names, and dates?

Whaddya think, fellow Slingsters?
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CanDo
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #1 - Apr 29th, 2006 at 1:07pm
 
Sounds excellent to me. I've honestly never had a chance to sling purely for distance (no range far enough)...

Anyway, good idea, hopefully it can be implemented.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #2 - Apr 29th, 2006 at 1:41pm
 
it sounds good.  it is alot like you system that you suggested earlier(no that that is bad or anything)
we really do need some kind of standard so that we can truly see how one person/style compares to another.

for comparison of styles and sling lengths, we really need someone that has the time to become profiecient with all of the different styles and slings, and then see his/her results and compare.

*sigh* oh well, until then this sounds like a great way to guage ourselves against eachother.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #3 - Apr 29th, 2006 at 2:06pm
 
Sounds like an O-SAST-ER waiting to happen.


I'm in.


TS
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #4 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 1:50am
 
A good project to evaluate how well one is applying their own slinging resources, disregarding personal strength as a variable.

In my case unassisted hard throws are almost impossible without pain whereas slinging exertion hasn’t found any limit yet. This is possibly due to me subconsciously trying not to outpace a longish sling and 148gr b-ball moving at 54+ m/sec.

Tom 
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #5 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 8:34am
 
Hello.
This sounds like good project.
Because of my rheumatism and painful fingers and body
I have problem of throwing anything with my fingers allone more than ca 15 meters. When I use my sling I
can throw maybe 60 meters, but I have a hard time hiting what I aim for.
When I use my staf sling things are looking better.
I can throw maybe around ca 100 meters and with greater chance of hiting what I aim for Smiley
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #6 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 12:23pm
 
there is possibly a slight problem with osast - your muscles develop as you sling, so that your hand-thrown distance improves (and accuracy certainly improves)
but  the question is, does your hand-thrown distance relate to your slinging distance in the same ratio as your slinging distance improves?
osast is a good idea and i hope it works but i suspect that the ratio is too variable.
for instance - a girly thrower with a good sling, or a good pitcher/bowler with no innate feel for slinging.   

sv
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #7 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 1:46pm
 
i think comparing the way people sling will definately improve results for many people. They will be able to see other's progress and maybe get tips and suggestions from those of us who seem to climb that steep learning curve faster than others.

The one question I would have is how would you consider the variants in that some people sling much better with one type of style than an other.

For instance, personally I really cannot sling underhand. I completely and udderly fail in every attempt I have tried. The only real slinging style I feel comfortable with is Apache style. No wind-ups and one quick movement.

Using a shorter sling (i like accuracy and power) at about 25",I can sling a rock almost 80yds using the Apache style. If I throw the same rock with the same sling using underhand style, I can only sling about 45-50 yds.

If you throw a ball with your hand, you are probably going to throw it in a manner that mostly resembles the apache style unless you're going to softball pitch it in which it will be most like the underhand style.

one possible Solution to the problem? Have different catagories for different style throws.

Comparing my O-sast of apache (80/50=1.6) to my underhand (45/50=.9). Very big difference...

Another point, these were measured using a short sling, increase the sling size and my distances go up also.

It doesnt seem feasible to have a huge table taking into account the sling size, ammo size, slinging style, hand throwing style. There are just too many variables.

But this is a great attempt to get some type of system for measurements.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #8 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 2:09pm
 
I think this is a great idea, if only because of the attempt to measure progress.

It does seem to have alot of variables though. Yesturday I went hiking with a friend of mine and brought my slings. We had a good solid day of slinging by a river large river. 
He cannot throw very well by hand, but he was sending those stones very far with the sling.

I don't know where that leaves us.  Undecided

-Unsapien
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #9 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 3:01pm
 
a very high percentage of increase?  it just means he is good with the sling, perhaps like rebel, who has trouble throwing by hand, but has prowes with the sling.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #10 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 4:45pm
 
Well, it seems  a good place to start, and a way we can tell each other what kind of "action" we're getting on our pitches.   I think I'll consider my SAST (Same Ammo Simply Thrown) pitches as pitches with a sling of zero length, and try to duplicate my sling snap, but with no sling.  This should get me about as much distance as any other non-sling-assisted style.  So here, goes:

1/ Sling = Short, 20 inch length folded
2/ Delivery = 1-3/4 turn underhand style
3/ Ammo = Tennis balls weighted to 3oz (80gm)
4/ Grip = Apache style
5/ O-SAST = 1.7
6/ Comment:  My accuracy/consistency with this combo is better with the sling than simply thrown.  Perhaps due to more practice with sling than throwing.

What else should be included in these "O-SAST" reports??
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« Last Edit: Apr 30th, 2006 at 6:19pm by mgreenfield »  
 
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #11 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 4:55pm
 
i would include your throw type, whether it be overhand or underhand (baseball or softball pitch) as a base for comparison between sling throws and hand throws.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #12 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 6:20pm
 
...thanx.  I went back & edited my 1/-->5/ list to show this better.
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #13 - Apr 30th, 2006 at 9:49pm
 
Quote:
2/ Delivery = 1-3/4 turn underhand style


How does this work? 1-3/4 turn sounds like tennis/figure-8, but that wouldn't work underhand, would it? Or do you do a regular underhand with 1-3/4 turns?
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Re: "Over Same Ammo Simply Thrown" (O-SA
Reply #14 - May 1st, 2006 at 9:06am
 
See if these links still work:

www.slinging.org/movies/MikeG1.avi
www.slinging.org/movies/MikeG1.mov

This style isnt nearly as pretty as the nwmanitou overhand, but gives same general range, and is easier to learn.  Also, easier on the joints I think.

Interestingly, if you count the actual degrees of rotation, this & nwmanitou overhand are the same, ...about 1-3/4 turns from start to launch, just in opposite directions.

Keep in mind that there's just one reason for the wind up, ...to move the ammo into position for the snap with the sling cords taut.  The snap is what does all the work.
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