Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobra (Read 1776 times)
pancaker
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 71
Ohio
Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobra
Apr 7th, 2006 at 10:59pm
 
I am very puzzled....
When I practice slinging after dark, I do the throws with an empty pouch in my apartment.
Every time the motions flow just right, and the "whoosh-snap" sounds at its most uplifting, my sling seems to bite my finger!

It feels as though either the retention cord or the release toggle whips my index finger on the slinging hand.

My sling is 1/4 inch diameter paracord (not very flexible) with a webbing toggle (not much heavier, but slightly stiffer). I use an Apache grip - i.e. both retention and release cords are held between the tip of my thumb and the first knuckle of my index finger.

Regardless of throw style (figure-8, side, golf, up, down, across, upside-down, you name it), my index finger gets a spanking whenever I get a really good hard throw.

This happens most easily with an empty pouch or small/light projectiles, and only during the strongest/fastest throws. I would guess it's either the increased sling speed or the reduced oscillation damping normally caused by a heftier stone. It occasionally happens with heavy stones too, when I really put my back into it.

Thus I imagine it might be one of the following:
-a snap during release, in which the retention cord becomes taut and tries to displace my index finger
-some odd toggle trajectory on its way out of my grip, perhaps I whack my hand into it before it has a chance to overcome the toggle's inertia
-as the release cord swings into alignment with the retention cord, it needs to sharply decelerate (once in line, it remains in line) and thus transfers its momentum to the pouch. The pouch, being a heavier object on the cord, and interrupting the smooth transmission of waves, induces some combination of reflected/transmitted waves which then travel down the retention cord and cause it to strike my hand. (what do I know)

Due to the wide variety of throw styles, angles, etc. attempted, I have suffered stings from the tip of my index finger to the center of the back of my hand, to the joint between my index finger and thumb.

All attempts to observe my throws directly or in the mirror have failed. I've asked others to watch and try to see what's happening, but the motion is just too fast.

Have others encountered this phenomenon?
Any ideas what it might be, and how it could be countered?
Would changing the pouch weight / cord weight / cord flexibility do anything?

I would like to continue using high-power throws, preferably without looking like a kid whose father caught him with a hand in the cookie jar. Smiley

Suggestions appreciated,

-pancaker
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Matthew 11:25-30

Posts: 1700
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #1 - Apr 7th, 2006 at 11:14pm
 

One method I employ to limit this occasional problem is to use smaller, lighter release tabs.  The problem has been virtually eliminated for me in this manner.


TS


Back to top
 

Blessings in Yeshua!&&
 
IP Logged
 
Dale
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 1581
California, USA
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #2 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 1:34am
 
I have this problem if I use the narrow grip as you describe it.  I have no problem if I use a wide grip (finger loop on second or third finger).

I have been playing with wrist loops, and I like them.  The cord can go up between thumb and forefinger, for a narrow grip, or between any other two fingers for a wider grip.

However, I "sting" myself with ALL grips when I use a wrist loop!!

My slings mostly use 1/8-inch (3mm) nylon cord.  Because the cord is thinner and more flexible, I get snapped even on slower casts.  When I swung a sling slowly, with an empty pocket, I was able to observe what happened.

When I release, a wave travels up the cord from the release knot to the pocket, then up the retained cord to my hand.  When I am using a wide grip and a finger loop, the wave simply reflects off the finger loop or gets "absorbed" there.  When I am using a finger loop and narrow grip, the wave can snap my finger as it passes.  When I am using that wrist strap, the wave can snap a finger AND my palm!

I think that with thicker cords, this doesn't happen unless the sling is being moved quicker, which is why you have not been able to see what happens.  It is too fast with 1/4-inch (6mm) cords.

I have noticed that occasionally I do not get snapped.  I think, when that happens, I have followed through more strongly and the retained cord is being held against my hand and the wave gets damped out when it reaches my hand.  But I am not sure about this, and I cannot reproduce it deliberately.

The only thing I can think of, is to wear a glove.  But that ruins my aim, because I cannot feel the sling well enough to release at the right time.  Maybe if I practice with a glove for a while ...

TechStuf, I put a leather release tab like yours, on my best (so far) wrist loop sling.  Leather wrist bracelet, actually, with the cord tied to a grommet in the bracelet.  Feels really secure, works very well, except for stinging my palm most of the time.  The leather release tab did not help the problem.

Does anybody else have any ideas?
Back to top
 

No, I don't live in a glass house.&&&&"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."&&&&Context matters!  "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
pancaker
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 71
Ohio
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #3 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 2:46am
 
Dale,

I am glad you've been able to see what happens. This will make it easier to try to fix the problem.

If I understand your description, this problem might be fixed by inserting a metal wire core partway down the retaining cord. The reinforced cord should dampen that wave before it reaches your hand.

I don't think I have the proper kind of wire around the house, but I will post back as soon as I can try this out.

Interesting that the tab makes a difference... maybe that's what initiates the wave?

Do folks with fluffy-tailed release cords experience this snap-back? That may be another solution, if a large and light end on the release cord would dissipate that energy through air drag.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dale
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 1581
California, USA
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #4 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 9:58am
 
If I recall (too lazy to look it up at the moment), TechStuf wrote somewhere that he thought he was getting whacked by the release knot.  I also thought this, until I built that wrist-strap sling and started getting my palm slapped.

You raise an interesting question about "fluffy tails".  I'm going to have to dig out one of my braided slings and try it with a narrow grip (always used wide grip with them, for some reason).  See if I get snapped or not.
Back to top
 

No, I don't live in a glass house.&&&&"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."&&&&Context matters!  "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Matthew 11:25-30

Posts: 1700
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #5 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 10:49am
 
Although Dale is correct that I cannot, at this point, prove that my assertion regarding the leather release tab hitting my finger, is correct.....I am at a loss to explain how such 'wave effect' would go entirely unnoticed by reducing the release tab's mass by 1/3rd.


I had noticed the effect never showed itself on my extreme distance rigs because of the cord retention loop, or Pocket Cinch Ring.


I was thumped pretty consistently on the back of the third digit of my right index finger until reducing the release tab's mass.  If it should prove to be a recoil induced wave effect....then WoW!  I would have to say Kudo's to Dale!  And that I could hardly have believed that such thin, light cordage might carry such a punch in wave form!



Which would then pose the question of how best to harness that meaningful energy.......!



TS
Back to top
 

Blessings in Yeshua!&&
 
IP Logged
 
Dale
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 1581
California, USA
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #6 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 11:15am
 
I took my very first sling outside and played around with it.  Braided from nylon twine, 24 inches folded.  I cannot get a whip crack out of it, but I can get a kind of "whuff" noise out of it.  And when I got that noise, I didn't get any reaction at my hand.  Other times ... I cannot say that the sling snapped me, it wasnt' moving that fast (I wanted to see what it was doing so I was swinging it slowly).  But I could feel the retained cord tap my fingers, when I was using a narrow grip.

Also, I noticed that the wave that travelled up the sling, was not initiated by my release.  It was initiated when the sling straightened out and the end of the sling whipped around.

Putting these things together, I'm guessing that the energy either got dissipated by the whip-whuff (cannot say "whip-crack" with this sling) or it travelled up the sling to my hand.

Now, as to why I got a whuff some times, and got tapped by my sling other times ... no clue.

I'm going back out later and try the same exercise with my wrist-strap sling, see what happens.
Back to top
 

No, I don't live in a glass house.&&&&"If builders built buildings the way programmers write programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."&&&&Context matters!  "Nothing but net" is a BAD thing in tennis...
WWW  
IP Logged
 
slingbadger
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Don't Badger a Badger

Posts: 3220
Akron NY
Gender: male
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #7 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 2:45pm
 
  The whoosh snap sound you hear is the sound of the sling breaking the sound barrier. No fooling. Just like a whip. The " fluffy" part of the cord does a small sonic boom at the end of the throw. The cord is hitting your finger at a good speed at that point.
  If you notice, most expert whippers wear gloves.
Back to top
 

The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance  The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein   I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic?
 
IP Logged
 
hawk_chucker
Junior Member
**
Offline


I love Slinging.org!

Posts: 73
Re: Mysterious finger hurting - aka the ghost cobr
Reply #8 - Apr 8th, 2006 at 7:00pm
 
Para cord is great for slings but if ya remove the inner strands it is more pliable.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: joe_meadmaker, Curious Aardvark, Morphy, vetryan15, Chris, Rat Man, Kick)