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Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s (Read 6622 times)
Alsatian
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Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Dec 2nd, 2005 at 11:48am
 
Yesterday , on the TV,they showed a film about the weapons of the Middle-Ages and their effectivity. They measured the velocity of arrows shot by english longbows: 50m/s. That is still far from the 70m/s for modern hightech bows. For a young and trained slinger it isn't probably too difficult to reach this velocity with his stones.
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chaosmage
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #1 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 12:26pm
 
How did they reach that figure?

Alot of history shows are interesting, but when they recreate something they miss out on some important details and make alot of sweeping conclusions.
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Matthias
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #2 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 2:17pm
 
That actually sounds pretty close. Numbers given/measured are usually in the low 50s (180fps) range, and this is easily achievable with a sling. I've been (slowly) working on sling ballistics and all indications seem to point to 45m/s being a typical starting point for beginning slingers. A few of us can almost certainly stretch that out to 70m/s, while the mid 50s are within reach with practice for casual slingers.

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Mike_R
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #3 - Dec 2nd, 2005 at 2:46pm
 
The probably reached those numbers with a chronograph, and that does sound about right. The thing you have to take into account is arrow weight. You could shoot a very light arrow and it would go faster. That is why when people test longbows and recurves now to review their performance, they list the weight.

Normally the rule of thumb is 10 grains of weight per pound of draw weight. For example 500grains for a 50# bow. That way if you have two similar bows, differing only in draw weight you can compare them. They are usually about the same.

Some typical speeds are 150-180 fps for most modern composite recurves and longbows, 200 fps for some expensive composites recurves and longbows using carbon fiber layers, 200-300 fps for some super high tech compound bows, and lastly 120-150 fps for older wooden bows.

There are exceptions, english longbows made from yew have similar properties to composite bows because of the wood, so they have about the same performance 180 fps or so.

That all said speed isn't everything, it has been proven time and again that with bows, the weight of the arrow, and the arrow head are what dictate penetration, not speed. For example I hunt with either a 65# recurve or a 70# longbow, so I make wooden arrows that are about 600 grains plus a 150 grain two-blade broadhead. I'm pretty sure they are only getting about 150 fps, if that, but they will pass-thru a deer or a bear, half the time and always kill if they hit close to the target zone.

If I shoot 200 grain carbon fiber arrows with 100 grain tips they must be much, much faster, at least 200 fps, but they will bounce right off a deer and not even hurt it.

I'm not sure but I think slings work the same way, we worked about the approx speed of a 3 oz projectile from my 55 inch sling, about 215 fps, but I'm certain that the regular size rocks I use (about 6oz) have much more power. I've killed some geese and racoons with bigger rocks, but had smaller ones do nothing.

Anyway, just my view, I could be wrong.
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Wrenn
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #4 - Dec 3rd, 2005 at 5:54am
 
There was an interesting episode of Mythbusters on here recenetly where they examined the hollywood movie myth of splitting an arrow with a second arrow. During the show they showed a device they use to measure the speed of arrows and I think it was called a chronograph. Basically two light/laser sensers that you fire the arrow through. The bow they were using to test the myth was a modern compound bow and they measured its speed at 240fps. Unfortunately they didnt measure a proper longbow but the figure they got for the compound bow fits in with the figures people are posting here.

It was a good episode for those that havent seen it and might want to track it down.

Actually speaking of Mythbusters there was also another good episode a few weeks ago where they built some massive slingshots. I think they could have used some consulting people from here to help them build proper pouches/release mechanisms Wink
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #5 - Dec 3rd, 2005 at 9:13am
 
sounds about right - a clothyard arrow didn't have to be that fast.
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Willeke
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #6 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 3:15pm
 
My uncle did shoot an arrow in the back of one already in the target, and was very cross, because he did loose 2 good arrows that way. The second one did get stuck in the end of the first.

Willeke
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #7 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 4:22pm
 
It does happen, and ruining two arrows is no fun! I've never seen one done on purpose, but I do have a method for preventing it: when I practice with broadheads (they seem to always wreck the arrows compared to field tips) I put up six little targets spaced out, that way it can't happen.
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Chaotic Rage
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #8 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 4:39pm
 
I just use one arrow, and the spiltting doesn't happen, but it gets annoying going back and forth to get it. I only do this because I actually have lost all my other ones, and the store-bought arrows are to short.
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Willeke
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #9 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 4:55pm
 
But it is good for your condition. (I often have do it when slinging.)

Willeke
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2005 at 5:31pm
 
How long an arrow do you use? I make cedar arrows that are 33" but you should be able to buy at least 31" arrows in a store. I draw to 30.5" so I can buy 31" carbon shafts to make arrows.
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Alsatian
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #11 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 11:55am
 
Mike_R
You are right. Velocity is not all. They showed that an arrow with this velocity of 50m/s went easily through a coat of chain mail.
I believe they measured the velocity with some infrared device. By the way it's a pity I don't understand the technical terminology (grains of weight...).
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Mike_R
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #12 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 1:00pm
 
No sweat, grains are just the way they measure bullets and arrows. The conversion is I think about 15.45 grains to each gram. So get the weight in grammes and multiply by 15.45 (I think). I'm slightly less sure about the pounds to grains conversion, but I think there are 9000 grains in a pound.
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #13 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 4:16pm
 
Makes sense to me that immediate effect on the target depends on speed, weight, shape of the projectile, and it's composition, because these determine how much energy (foot/lbs, Newton/Meters, etc) is put into the target upon impact. 

Seems like ideally you'd want an arrow to stop with it's head still (barely) inside the target, and a sling glande to impact, perhaps penetrate some, but never bounce.

So, once you've specified your "launcher", pick a projectile weight that launches with maximum foot/lbs available, then shape it to stay in the target, ....assuming that aerodynamics can be held constant all the while.

Does this make sense??
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Re: Velocity of english longbows: 50m/s
Reply #14 - Dec 5th, 2005 at 5:08pm
 
I think with arrows you want the arrow to penetrate as much as possible. The foot/pounds of force is so small with an arrow that it is the cutting that matters. The more the better. So just going in a bit is no good, you need it to cut blood vessels and puncture vital organs.  Also if the arrow is a pass-thru it can't interfere with bleeding. That is why in the old days they said to leave the arrow in, when you pulled it out you would just bleed out.
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