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Greek Fire (Read 11272 times)
Tito
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Greek Fire
May 19th, 2005 at 11:51pm
 
Since i got interested in smoke bombs (thanks to DTB) i was thinking about the ancient mixture known as Greek fire. it was an incendinry that was inextinguishable by water and very distructive.
after a bit of research, i found these recipes;

Work 4 lb. of lime, 4 lb. of sulphur and 2 lb. of benedit oil into a dough.

Mix well together 5 oz. of unslaked lime, 5 oz. of sulphur and ½ oz. of benedit oil.

Grind 1 lb. of sandarach resin and 1 lb. of liquid gum ammoniac together in a pot and put it on a fire until the contents are melted. Then pour 4 lb. of Greek pitch over it to complete the composition.


They are all extinguishable by getting smothered by sand.
Note: i have not tried any of these recipies, because my parents won't let me and we live in an area where i can't use them at all.
Tito
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That's one small sling for David. One giant headache for Goliath.&&The safest place to stand when I sling, is right in front of me!
 
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Mike_R
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #1 - May 20th, 2005 at 1:09am
 
In the army we had grenades with white phosphorus that would burn under water. Also napalm is very hard to put out. And thermite can be produced in a fairly simple fashion, but it needs magnesium to light it.
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Stenny
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #2 - May 20th, 2005 at 3:04am
 
White phosphorus alone can not burn underwater, only mixex with their own source of oxygen can. Thermites, pyrogels, napalm with a good amount of oxidizer, some signaling pyro mixtures(like road flare comp.) are some examples. Normal napalm is extinguinshable with a water, but the problem is that it's lighter than a water, so when you leave small spot undoused, the whole lump of napalm will rapidly catch the fire again, now floating on the water. Metallized incendiaries are in normal terms impossible to put out with the use of water, because it will turn into hydrogen and oxygen and this mix will explode, scattering the incendiary everywhere.
The true Greek fire formula is lost, but napalm with a oxidizer is it's closest relative I would think. Or pitch/oil/oxidizer mix. If you want to be nasty, add calcium carbide into the napalm, so water will cause it to generate acetylene gas, which will ignite and inflict bad things on all flammables nearby.
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« Last Edit: May 22nd, 2005 at 3:11am by Stenny »  

Slinger, martial artist, knife thrower, blowgunner and general weirdo since 1998.&&Proud owner of official Zombie hunting permit and scars to prove it's worth.&&Underestimating a fighter or a weapon is the surest way to make plastic surgeons happy.
 
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Douglas_The_Black
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #3 - May 20th, 2005 at 8:49am
 
i used a pitch/ saltpeter/ grape vine charcoal mix. I havent got the weight down, i tend to just toss some in.  Smiley
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Stenny
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2005 at 3:19am
 
Woohoo, sticky gunpowder! Grin
Yes, pitch and saltpeter is good. I forget to mention another good mix: candle wax and sulphur in equal parts by volume. Melt the wax and stir the sulphur in, let it cool and then... dispose of it safely, of course!
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Tint
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2005 at 5:15am
 
Goodness gracious great balls of fire! Cheesy

I am in a singing mood........
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Tito
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #6 - May 23rd, 2005 at 1:08am
 
whoa! hot stuff  Cheesy
a couple of hours after i posted the previous message, i wondered whether this post should be here or in the Other Primitive Weapons section. so i will assume that it should be here because i don't know how to move posts.
Anyway i was wondering if anyone could please Grin Grin Grin make a video of them slinging their most spectacular fire recipe. DTB had some great smoke bomb videos, and fire would add some colour. Wink
keep singing Tint.
Tito
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That's one small sling for David. One giant headache for Goliath.&&The safest place to stand when I sling, is right in front of me!
 
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #7 - May 23rd, 2005 at 8:14am
 
Smoke on the water.........FIRE IN THE SKY!

(with head banging)
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Douglas_The_Black
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #8 - May 23rd, 2005 at 8:59pm
 
check this out islamic grenads used agenst the crusaders

...


and yes this demon is holding a grenade

...

the islamic grenades are fancy looking, kind of look like sea shells. I am currently making a reproduction of one of them with out the fancy stuff.

the demon was found in some cave umm..cave temple at Ta-Tsu china 1128 A.D.

pretty neat.  Smiley

by the way tint i love that song Cheesy
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i live in a maze of typo's&&&& popularity is for dolls a hero cannot be popular-Ralph Waldo Emerson&&&&DTB-master of the corny vest, and crappy carpet!
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #9 - May 24th, 2005 at 8:32pm
 
Hey pretty neat recipe for poison gas that I found

Human excrement dried powderd and finely sifted            15 lb
wolfs bane                                    8oz
Aconite                                          8oz
Croton oil                                    8oz
Soap-bean pods (to make the smoke)                  8oz
Arsenious oxide                                    8oz
Arsenic sulfide                                    8oz
Cantharides beetles                              4oz
Ashes                                          16oz
Tung oil                                          8oz
Total                                          316oz

That was taken from the military encyclopedia by tseng Kungliang (A.D. 1044)

Just a few questions what the heck is: wolfs bane, Aconite, Croton oil, Arsenious oxide, Cantharides beetles, and Tung oil? Also I hear that greek fire had sulfur ,saltpeter, gasoline, (I assume its something different from the gas we use today but Im most likely wrong) pine resin, and gum resin.      In other recipes they  mention tow. I think its called tow anyway, but what is it and how was it made? Thanks.
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i live in a maze of typo's&&&& popularity is for dolls a hero cannot be popular-Ralph Waldo Emerson&&&&DTB-master of the corny vest, and crappy carpet!
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #10 - May 24th, 2005 at 10:04pm
 
Wolfsbane and aconite are herbs, I believe. I think wolfsbane was used in lots of those ancient "turn yourself into a werewolf" and "kill a werewolf"-type concoctions, 'though a modern day version is drinking a cup of drano. I don't know any of the other stuff, except for tung oil, which is used in woodwork as a finish;you should be able to get it in your local home improvement store.

Doesn't your basic saltpeter-sugar smoke bomb turn toxic if you mess up the ratio?
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #11 - May 25th, 2005 at 4:06am
 
Wolfs bane(wolfsbane) - aconitum napellus, one of most toxic herbs available
Aconite - aconitum, napellus or lycoctonum 
Croton oil - oil from croton tiglium, bright coloured plant often grown as a houseplant
Arsenious oxide - oxide of arsenic, probably As2O3, arsenic trioxide
Cantharides beetles - some beetles which have cantharidine(pretty potent poison) in them - that's almost every beetle which lives underground, check your favourite "poisonous insect guide"
Tung oil was already explained.
Tow is the strange thing which is produced in the process of flax dressing. It is widely used by plumbers to seal threads and such - wrap with a tow, apply some oil or vaseline and screw it tightly. Any plumber's shop will have it.
Wolfsbane is so called because aconitum roots were placed in pieces of meat and scattered across the land, wolves ate it and the roots kill them.
If you just want to generate  posion gas, use dried, powdered aconitum roots OR(not and) arsenic trioxide as a additive to a sugar/saltpeter mixture(or blackpowder/oil, if you want to be medieval - this mixture was used with an aconitine to poison people in castles and such, setting everything on fire meanwhile) and sod beetles, excrements and such. It is not important and, in the case of beetles, hard to find in enough quantity.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #12 - May 25th, 2005 at 8:10am
 
*Ducks down from being totally put in his place*Grin

Anyway, Is the dried...excrement supposed to be the sodium nitrate/potassium nitrate of the mix? Just a little diluted?
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #13 - May 25th, 2005 at 3:50pm
 
haha yes that helps. i was not wondering where i could get it or what i could use as a replacement, explosions and fire are my thing not poison gas. But thanks for all the info anyway! Smiley

by the way where could you get sulfer naturaly? burning somethings will release it or make it but im not positve i rember what.

also i was wondering, today we get lead from tires and fishing weights, but how would they origanaly mine the stuff? was there a lead ore? if so what did it look like where could you find it?
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i live in a maze of typo's&&&& popularity is for dolls a hero cannot be popular-Ralph Waldo Emerson&&&&DTB-master of the corny vest, and crappy carpet!
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Re: Greek Fire
Reply #14 - May 25th, 2005 at 7:03pm
 
you can find sulphur naturally at any volcanic thermal area. but how you are going to get the stuff out... i have absolutely no idea. ??? i am sure there are other methods of getting sulphur naturally, sorry but i don't know them.  Undecided
Tito
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That's one small sling for David. One giant headache for Goliath.&&The safest place to stand when I sling, is right in front of me!
 
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