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Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Archery (Read 10134 times)
britishslinger
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #15 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 1:41pm
 
wow i i can ask how much will it cost inm interested
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Johnny
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #16 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 1:41pm
 
Magnum,

"The Biblical "bow of bronze" was probably a reference to a composite scythian-tatar-type recurve bow of a similar design"

What is the reference to this statement?

I've done some research on this and the Hebrew word means "serpentine or snake like". Like the shape of a double convex bow or scythian type.

Thanks,
Johnny
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #17 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 2:14pm
 
Dear Britishslinger,

I'll let you know as soon as I get his reply to my inquiry.  Such bows used to run between just over $200 USD for a simple version to over $600 for more elaborately decorated and finished models, depending on the bowyer, materials, specs of the bow, etc.  I'll try to find out how much this gentleman would require to supply them, and other details ASAP, and whether he has any in stock, etc.  If not, it could take a few months for him to manufacture one, or more in a lot, and ship it/them.  (To me, there's just something compelling about the idea of using a sling in combination with a good horn bow!  That's why I'm going to try to launch this "Benjamin" project of mine!)

Thank you, also, for being interested!  It's nice to know that I'm not the "Lone Stranger" in this regard!  Cheesy
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Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #18 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 2:22pm
 
Dear Johnny,

Thank you for that!  I'm not certain offhand where I read the references that have lead me to this conclusion, but I do believe that I am correct in this regard, due to several factors of time period, geography, descriptions of military equipment, tactics, and encounters, etc. attributed to the Hebrews and their Philistine, Persian, Median, Babylonian, Egyptian and other neighbors, etc.

I'll see what I can dig out of my library, computer files, head, etc. that may be of interest to you!  I do a lot of reading and research in many areas, and this is one of them.  Thank you again for the supporting information! Smiley

May I ask you what you know about the Benjaminnites?  Is there anything particularly interesting, or special that comes to mind?

I know that there is a connection between the Biblical word for serpent (Nekhash?) and the word for copper/bronze/etc. (Nekosheth), and that these two terms appear to be closely interrelated, and that Moses used a "bronze serpent" to heal the people's wounds at the mouths of "fiery serpents, etc., and that some Hermetic Kabalists claim an identification among these terms, and "Meshiach" or "anointed deliverer", if I am not mistaken, so the use of "serpentine" and "bronze" alternately by various translators to describe the bow would make sense.  As a "traveling man" with special interests in various religious and philosophical traditions, I spend some time every week trying to read up on similar matters.
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Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #19 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 11:08am
 
Ah right - you didn't actually mention that the turkish bows were the same as the korean ones. And as bows vary from a couple of feet in length to over 6 feet (I think the longest is actually a japanese bow where you draw by pushing it away from your rather than pulling) with almost infinite design differences It wasn't obvious :-)
And I'd probably take the russian akm over the romanian one any day :-)

Just had a 45 minute qigong session after my gym workout :-) Bring it on lol !

Concentrating your chi and increasing your balance would certainly help with archery, particularly if you're hanging onto a 150lb bow. I believe that's one of the core tenets of japanese archery as well.
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 11:34am
 
Heh, heh! Totally agree with you on those points regarding archery, qigong, etc. Curious!

Yeah, I guess I sometimes assume that others are filling in the blanks on obscure points when I go into fast-forward information and minutiae upload mode!  I can probably blame it at least in part from my old M.I. officer days in the army when I had to give all sorts of intelligence briefings to commanders and their staff members, threat briefings and weather reports, etc.  to the whole battalion, and...?...(oh, yes, and the "gun" report: "Boom, sir!" Cheesy )

Your mention of your martial arts philosophy and background, and strength training, etc. are impressive, by the way!  It sounds like you have a well-rounded, and extensive background.

You've inspired me to try to actually obtain one of these unusual high-powered bows, and maybe even two, to see what they look and feel like.  I have asked the bowyer if he can get me a Crimean Tatar version in the 120-pound range, and /or the Hungarian Bow in the 160 pound range.  He doesn't keep these in stock, as it turns out, and he will have to build them, so it will unfortunately take at least three months, he told me today Cry , but that didn't discourage me.  I asked him to give me the final details, and if all looks satisfactory, I plan to order one, or both, depending on the expense involved, etc.  I'll let everyone here know as soon as I know more.

The site for the Korean archery picture of the man with the 106-pound version of the Korean horn bow is at: http://koreanarchery.org/106lb.jpg

As it turns out, it looks like I could have been underestimating the range we were shooting at a bit, or else this guy backed of an additional 5m, because the source says that the arrow was destroyed, after hitting a target 145m away, as opposed to 140m (I think he must've backed off from the firing line 5m, but I can double check that)  Anyway, here's the address of the picture I promised of the tip of the arrow that was thus destroyed:
http://koreanarchery.org/point.jpg

I hope that you find these pictures interesting, Curious Aardvaark!  Have a good one!
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Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2005 at 2:08pm
 
Magnum,
Notice that he is drawing the bow with the "mediterranean draw". Is it to difficult to draw a 100# bow with a thumbring?

I make longbows and can shoot 100# bows with no problems. No way could I do it with the thumb only! Of course these guys have been drawing the bow this way all their life!

Johnny
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #22 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 12:13am
 
Johnny,

That's a great observation!  What happens with Koreans who are just drawing bows casually is that they generally default to the three-or-four-finger draw, usually with a glove, without bothering to find the thumb ring, stuff, and screw it onto their thumb, adjust it to the correct angle, tighten the leather shem strap, etc. when they are not actually intending to fire an arrow with it.  This man also didn't lock his forearm fully when push-pulling the bow, which ALSO makes the draw more difficult for him to hold, but he's obviously strong enough to get away with it.

The thumb ring, if fitted well, doesn't really make the draw harder, unless it bites into your thumb  (In which case, it is no fun to draw even a LIGHTER weight bow!).  You just have to maintain a reasonably good grip on it.  When actually firing arrows, Koreans and other hornbow archers always use the thumb ring, because it makes the release much cleaner, and improves accuracy and protects the fingers somewhat with heavier draw weights, by precluding contact with the pressure end of the string.
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Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #23 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 7:12am
 
i shoot a bit, with a 60 pound compound bow. these bows make the english longbow (which had a draw weight for war of about 120 pounds) look like primitive toys. 160lbs? no wonder the sling faded from the battlefield, these things are wonderful. the men who used them to shoot from horseback must have been of incredible strength and skill.
sv
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #24 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 7:23am
 
Have to admit my archery experience is limited to a short course I took quite a few years ago. But we pretty much just used a 2 finger draw. That three finger draw looks pretty awkward as far as a smooth release goes. Guess like everything it's practice. :-)

Getting that kind of power out of such a light and short looking bow (I'm assuming that guy isn't 8 feet tall lol) is pretty damn impressive (mind you he's a tough looking bugger - serious callouses on his hand).

Martial arts wise I did some judo as a kid and have been studying tai-chi, wu-chi & qi-gong for about 6 years now. Strength training is actually a sort of necessity lol. I'm damned if I'm going on a diet as food is pretty much my only vice. So I have to do silly amounts of exercise to avoid getting extremely fat. And I build muscle faster than I burn fat, so I concentrate on the strength side of things rather than massive amounts of cardio (sort of a polynesian metabolism) :-)
I like the philosophy behind most martial arts and once you start feeling the chi moving around you pretty much get hooked :-)

So what's a thumb ring - is that what the chap holding the arrow head is wearing. I assume you hook that onto the string rather than fingers, But how do you release it and wouldn't it damage the string ?
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #25 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 12:03pm
 
Dear Aardvaark,

Yes I was ALSO VERY impressed with the lighness, compactness, power and efficiency of these weapons, as I am with the sling!  That's why I was so glad everybody responding was so genuinely interested in such an impossible-sounding weapon.  Just wait til you actually HOLD one of these "weightless wonders" someday!  I was hooked for life immediately when I first held my 70 pound model!  It's easy to get the required distance with a 40-, or 50-pound model, so you don't have to go as high on these bows, poundage-wise as with other types of bows to get really amazing results.

Yes, that's a very small, customised thumb ring the man has on his other hand!  Good observation...These things are VERY smooth (Polished like glass!), and are actually easier on the string that using the fingers, like a teflon-, or nylon-lined bullet is easier on a pistol barrel than a lead or copper jacketed one.  Yes, you sort of hook the bowstring onto the notch, or horn knob of the ring, and loop your index finger over it, making a tight fist, and supporting your index finger by pressing in(thumbward) on it with your middle and ring fingers.  To release, you just need to  relax your thumb, and fling your hand wide open and backward, as you arch your shoulders/elbows apart (much as in Tai chi's "pierce to the rear" fa-jing movement) and rearward.  the ring will instantly release and guide the string where it needs to go, cleanly away from your cheek where you have been pressing the side of the arrow just forward of the fletching.)  

The feeling is incredible!  Just as with a long, well-made sling releasing a leaden glande on a perfect throw, it makes you feel like a silent "human gun", as "Cliff Savage" (CAN'T be his real name!?) wrote of the sling in his seminal work on the sling entitled "The Sling for Sport and Survival"!
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« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2005 at 4:08am by magnumslinger »  

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #26 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 12:21pm
 
Dear Funslinger,

There is a special way to hold the bow so that if you do it, and then release the thumb ring correctly, the bow will never come near your forearm, or wristwatch.  You also cant/tilt the bow slightly to the arrow side 15 degrees, so that the arrow looks like it is magically suspended in mid-air under the bow (actually it is being pinched/held in place by torque from the inner index finger-side of your string-pulling hand and upper-(proximal knuckle end of your) index finger).  The bow is devoid of handshock, so it should naturally just snap into the proper slanted position, at nearly 90 degrees from/perpendicular to your forearm, and palm.

Yes, style-wise, there's an interesting interweaving of flash and real substance in Korea.  You can't tell a person's skill or ability level until you get to know them, whether he or she  is flashy, or plain Jane in appearance here.
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2005 at 10:15am by magnumslinger »  

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #27 - Oct 5th, 2005 at 3:29pm
 
Magnum,
How do you keep the thumbring from bitting into your finger? I made one out of horn and the darn thing feels like it's gonna cut my finger off..!
Johnny
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #28 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 11:43am
 
Dear Johnny,

They use a file and sandpaper to round the edges to fit the particular person's thumb, and often further cushion it with a small, custom-cut piece of leather glued with Locktite or similar bond.  I just hit the target with my first two shots today, then made a few more hits throughout the day.  Also, my near misses are getting closer together, and to the target than before.  My main teacher likes the sling, but a lot of the others there didn't really understand its charm...They wanted me to hit a 145m target on the first shot with a sling, and when that didn't happen, seemed to quickly lose interest.  But, considering that they USUALLY hit it with their bows with no problem, it's sort of hard to blame them! Undecided

By the way, on my second day of shooting, I hit the target on my fourth shot, and on the third day, I hit it on the sixth and tenth shots, so now they are letting me shoot on the regular line with the REAL archers, although I do so with mixed results, to say the least!  They sometimes miss the target, and I sometimes HIT it! Tongue

Still, I'm improving a LITTLE, while learning a LOT!  I'ts so instinctive, and trains you to shoot by feel as much as by sight!  That's really cool!  I hope it will help me with my slinging and other hand-eye throwing and striking activities.
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« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2005 at 10:43am by magnumslinger »  

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
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Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #29 - Oct 8th, 2005 at 2:30pm
 
Thumb rings sound interesting - as for tai chi movements. Ah well, my teacher doesn't believe in all the naming stuff. We just do it, having no idea what it's called :-) And as there are as many forms of tai-chi as there are tai chi masters, I have no idea what you mean :-)
The wu-chi on the other hand is unique to our school and a much more advanced/powerful (personally I believe the german word 'kraftig' sums it up best) system. My teacher and his master regularly go back to china to teach it, as it's one of the very nearly lost arts of chinese martial arts.

So how are these bows made then ?
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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