Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Archery (Read 9372 times)
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Archery
Sep 30th, 2005 at 10:03pm
 
I have recently become involved in one of the best martial arts I could ever imagine for a slinger such as I/we am/are Wink !  It is called "Goong Do", and is the longest-range ancient classical Asian martial art still practiced regularly to my knowledge.

What struck me immediately, in terms of its structure, was the fact that it not only includes a great 145metre/159-yard target competition, but also a "Gichin Funikoshi-esque" BELT RANKING SYSTEM based on how many targets a person can hit out of 40 arrows (and not too different from the old Spanish-Balearic system of hitting all of the slats on a gate as a way of testing combat readiness/SQT level), limited to increasing a maximum of two dan ranks MAXIMUM per year.  This seems to strike a good, and practical balance to insure the combined skill, participation and dedication to the sport by its students on a large scale.

I think it would be a worthwhile endeaver to perhaps try out setting up a formalized slinging art system based on similar criteria.  I just made my first hit on the 145m target on my tenth attempt on the first day I was allowed to shoot live arrows, and it wasn't easy AT ALL, and luck could have played a large factor, as well as intuition and a lot of experience using Western bows, and similar hand-eye marksmanship skills such as slinging, firearms and knife-throwing.  I was also impressed with the equipment used in these competitions.  The Mongolian-Turkish composite bows are STILL by FAR the finest bows in the world, and the Korean version is the shortest, lightest of this type, for the same draw weight/power in use today.

The longest Olympic range for a wester-style bow competition is 70m, and the longest Western competition PERIOD 90 m for point-type targets.  Even modern MONGOLS only shoot to about 70m, but the Koreans DOUBLE that range!  Only some reported balearic slinging using AREA-type targets such as swimming pools surpasses that for distance.

I think that this model would be a GREAT one for long-distance slingers to adopt.  It could even be adjusted to shorter-range competitions, and even to quasi-"tactical" speed slinging!  Also, there are many possiblilties to learn from other successful martial arts and sporting formats from paintball competitions to combat pistol competitions.

I've even thought of starting a "Benjamin Society", or club consisting of people dedicated to learning to AMBIDEXTROUSLY shoot the VERY compact, lightweight and powerful composite bow AND sling at various ranges, and under various simulated combative conditions, as a form of extreme quasi-historical sport based on the old biblical legends.  I'm not very religious, but it just sounds like a lot of romanticised fun!  If I can find a few interested friends to start this society, I think I may experiment with the above-mentioned format and variations on this theme as a basis for training, structure and competition.
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2005 at 10:49am by magnumslinger »  

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
lord_rocky
Novicius
*
Offline


.........Magic. ........

Posts: 7
Finland
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #1 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 5:44am
 
What shots you using? I use rocks
Back to top
 

If i hit you then i hit hard!
 
IP Logged
 
Tint
Interfector Viris Spurii
Past Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2291
Hong Kong
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #2 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 5:46am
 
Sounds great!  If you get this started, I do my bst to join.  

The one part that I feel most uncomfortable with is the two ranks maximum per year system.  That is just unfair!  What if someone really talented come along and hit 100% at the maximum range after one year of pratice?  I find it unfitting to only give him the second rank.  I believe rank should be based entirely on a person's ability and not restricted by the time spent praticing the arts.  That's just my thoughts if you feel that rule is important then I'll respect that.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Zwiebeltuete
Descens
***
Offline


Fly! Angel, fly!

Posts: 143
Germany, near Nuremberg
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #3 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 7:12am
 
Golf has an elaborated rank system called "handicap". I am not interested in that as I play for myself and hence don't know that well, but I try to describe that here a bit:

The handicap is a number representing how well someone hits. How it does that is not relevant for slinging. In golf the better your value is the more difficult it is to change it either by good or by bad play. This is done by a factor a game influences the handicap which gets lower and lower the better the handicap is. This slows down the improvement but also prevents a drastic fall by a single bad game. With low rankings it is possible to improve doing only private games (must be previously announced to the golf club to be counted for the ranking). Starting with medium ranking at least part of the improvement must come from tournaments.

Adapting that scheme to distance slinging coul be a hitrate instead of the handicap. After slinging 40 stones and getting x hits the difference times a factor is added to the hitrate. This factor changes then when the hitrates goes above e.g. 10, 20, 30, 35.  And based on this hitrate a colourful belt ranking system can be based.

If somebody is interested I can look up the rules about the golf handicap.
Back to top
 

Slinging since 2005-09-24.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #4 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 7:29am
 
Dear Tint,

Thank you for your interest, and good ideas!  I don't see why such a restriction would need to apply to a new slinging and archery group, especially one that would require AMBIDEXTROUS proficiency with TWO weapons at various ranges, since the required interest and skill level ALONE would probably weed out the chaff pretty quickly.  I think a requirement that rank holders have and maintain good character, and respect for the Society and its rules and leadership, etc. would suffice.  Beyond that, skill, accomplishment and dedication to the art should be the primary requirements for certification of proficiency-based rank.  (I also think that sub-certifications at various levels for each weapon/event could also serve to build a basis for a broader, overall rank for those who have attained in several, or all areas.)

However, I suppose in the case of long-range archery the Koreans have their reasons for doing so, and their rules are probably helpful in a Confucian context, or for an established art or system that needs to insure quality control among its participants.  So long as no need ever arose to implement such a restriction, due to some sort of abuse, or glutting of the top ranks, I also think that that type of restriction wouldn't need to apply to the Benjamin Society.

I really feel that such a club has a lot of potential to accomplish a lot of good, and if enough high quality people show enough interest to persevere in meeting and training regularly and developing a high degree of slinging and archery proficiency that would be the most important thing, and I would not wish to discourage talented people who should be leaders in such an effort by holding them back with restrictive rules.

I'll let you know how my localised efforts here go, and will try to keep our meetings and training sessions as practical and helpful to the members and community as possible, even if our membership is only a handful at first.
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #5 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 7:40am
 
Dear Zwiebeltuete,

Thank you also!  Your idea sounds a lot like the Korean Goongdo/archery belt ranking system, with the addition of coloured "kyu"-level belts (I personally favour the somewhat "scientific" 9-kyu levels:  white, then ROYGBIV rainbow spectral colour scheme then to a brown colour, and finally 5-9 possible "dan" (black belt) ranks, the top four being so difficult in nature that it would take years for most experts to reach, or otherwise only honourary in nature, and therefore awarded for outstanding long-term contributions to the art above and beyond the call of duty, etc.
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #6 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 7:42am
 
Dear Rocky,

Mostly stones and lead fishing sinkers.  But the possibilities are nearly endless, within reason!
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 12166
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2005 at 2:12pm
 
so the goongdo is just archery ?
what sort of bow ?
never been interested in ranking systems - they mainly exist to keep kids and beginners interested.
Martial arts I tend to do because I enjoy them, I gauge my improvement on how often I get application demo-ed on me by my teacher :-)
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #8 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 3:18am
 
It is a very special type of ancient Mongolian-style archery, which uses a very special type of composite bow used in the ancient world, which is more efficient than modern bows.  Some of the best modern compounds may approach, or slightly surpass them ballistically, but are not nearly as handy, light or compact as these bows.  The most powerful of these were estimated to have a 600 -plus yard range, and a 300 yard killing range, with shots from 150-166-pound versions reported as landing over 900 yards distant from the shooter.

The Biblical "bow of bronze" was probably a reference to a composite scythian-tatar-type recurve bow of a similar design.

The art incorporates yogic pranic breathing known as Ki-gong/Qigong, so it could be said to be a little more than mere archery.

As for the skill ranking system, I know that usually that is how most commercial schools employ them.  They are obviously not necessary to learn combative skills, but do serve as good yardsticks for competition, and incentives for improvement for many people.  They were originally invented by Jigoro Kano/Kano. Jigoro of Okinawa, and combined with weight classes to ensure better fairness in competition among Judo students, and have been widely subsequently adopted in most countries in many martial arts and sports.

Even the U.S. military does something similar to this when it issues marksmanship badges for "marksmen", "sharpshooters", and "experts", etc.
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
Tint
Interfector Viris Spurii
Past Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2291
Hong Kong
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #9 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 4:57am
 
My grandma is Mongolian!  She is no archer though Undecided.
Back to top
 
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 12166
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #10 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 6:13am
 
pictures dude - we want pictures :-)

150 lb pull bow. How tall is this thing ?
That's some pull, I could do it but I don't know many other people who might.
Sounds like fun anyway :-)
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #11 - Oct 2nd, 2005 at 12:05pm
 
Aardvaark,

Check out http://atarn.org/islamic/akarpowicz/turkish_bow_tests.htm and educate yourself. Roll Eyes
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 12166
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 7:14am
 
yeeesss, but those were turkish recurved bows - not korean.
Got anything on your korean ones ?
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #13 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 11:54am
 
Aardvaark,

You are splitting hairs:  It's like the difference between a Romanian-made AKM and a Russian-made one...They are essentially the same type of bow. Roll Eyes
Or are you just having me on?
Back to top
 

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
magnumslinger
Descens
***
Offline


I don't sling a thing
if I ain't got my sling!

Posts: 188
United Arab Emirates
Gender: male
Re: Long-range slinging sport based on Korean Arch
Reply #14 - Oct 3rd, 2005 at 1:09pm
 
Hey, Aarvaark!

I was just in contact with a man who has tentatively offered to make me a Magyar/Hungarian version of the Horn bow in 160# draw weight!!  If this goes through, I'll let you know, and send you some pictures of it!! 8)

Like I said, it's essentially the same as the Korean bow, but with a slightly different aesthetic appearance.  But some Koreans here shoot bows with the same profile as the Hungarian version.  I can refer you to a picture of a Korean bow in 106 pounds, if you like, and the arrow that it destroyed when it impacted with a target more than 140 metres away Shocked  (145 to be exact!).(I think you like, yes?!!) Wink
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 11th, 2005 at 10:46am by magnumslinger »  

Slinging.org people are progressive preservers of pre-historic protective, pantry-packing, and post-paleolithic parabellum practices...and they're also generally REALLY COOL!  Their bootlaces are their arsenal, and the world is their ammo dump!
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Bill Skinner, Rat Man, LightSlinger, Chris, Masiakasaurus, Curious Aardvark, Mauro Fiorentini)