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Something new? (Read 6933 times)
SnapCut
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Something new?
Jan 10th, 2005 at 3:04pm
 
...

I thought this up.  It is as of yet an unproven design.  What do you guys and gal think?

Is this the start of a whole new catagory of slings?

There is another design that I just sent to Chris this morning that I want to post also.
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Tint
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Re: Something new?
Reply #1 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 12:12am
 
Interesting!

Wouldn't the arrow need to be pointing towards the direction of the rotation? ???  That's what most of the other designs have.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #2 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 12:21am
 
Quote:
Wouldn't the arrow need to be pointing towards the direction of the rotation?   That's what most of the other designs have.


If it did it would just flip back over in flight or just wouldn't fly right.

I really like your design. Has it been built yet? What size arrow are you using (like length)? Do you mind if i take the design and run with it and try to improve it? How is the whole thing atached to your sling. What reslease it?
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Re: Something new?
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 1:09am
 
Your technical drawing skills are impressive and approach USPTO guidelines in their present form!   I believe your design stems from a common misconception regarding angular momentum.....the allusion has been made above to the fact that the arrow or dart will leave the 'sling' tangential to the arc of travel and at a right angle to the sling cord.  It is a common misconception that an object released from arcuate travel will fly outwards parallel to the sling cord.  A powerful misconception indeed, for even upon realization and investigation of what is actually occurring......so many in modern science still miss much regarding this amazingly simple principle.   

Keep up the imaginative design work.....who knows what you might come up with next!

Wink
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SnapCut
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Re: Something new?
Reply #4 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 3:24pm
 
Quote:
Interesting!

Wouldn't the arrow need to be pointing towards the direction of the rotation? ???  That's what most of the other designs have.


The Cestrosfendon drawings and photos I seen seem to have the arrow angled way out of the direction of rotation.  Would the combo of the arrows limited self righting ability and controlling the point of release compensate?

I think the arrow would be very short and very heavy.  The retention tube and release cable would be like that on bicycle brakes.

GUN I don't mind at all if you take that design and run with it.  I would like to see what could be done with it.  I still have some other ideas to go with it.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #5 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 3:37pm
 
...

Here is another design that may have the same problem?  A sling makes me think one way and a shot thrower makes me think another ???

I hope someone could give these a try ???
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Re: Something new?
Reply #6 - Jan 11th, 2005 at 7:56pm
 
You seem to fail to realize that your configurations are quite inefficient in that the fletching of your darts or arrows are situated perpendicular to the direction of travel.......thereby exhibiting a marked braking effect and much slower sling velocities.  This said.....you are obviously a creative individual who, I am sure, will surmount such difficulties.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #7 - Jan 12th, 2005 at 10:35am
 
BEE-HEE-HEE-HAW-HAW


I did a simple experiment last night that I think shows my designs should work.

I made a crude practice arrow from an unsharpened pencil and a filing card.  The end of the pencil with the eraser is the head of the arrow because it has some weight to it (remember arrows and spears center of gravity should be a little forward of its exact half way point).  The card was trimmed and two slots were cut in it and the pencil put through.  A very tiny piece of tape was put on.

I grasped the arrow in a pinch on its end just like my designs will and I made sure the fins were oriented correctly to function.

I performed overhand, underhand, and sidearm throws with many stable good flights.

There are many things going on in this process, it reminds me of the gyroscopic precession.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #8 - Jan 12th, 2005 at 1:47pm
 
Quote:
quite inefficient in that the fletching of your darts or arrows are situated perpendicular to the direction of travel.......thereby exhibiting a marked braking effect and much slower sling velocities.

Isn't this the point to better accuracy? If the flechings have a sprial it will help with accuracy and help stabalize it in flight. Other wise the arrow will be tumbling and then be useless.

Snapcut i ddn't forget about you. What is D in you first diagram. I know that it is the realse cable but how do you use it with a sling?
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Re: Something new?
Reply #9 - Jan 12th, 2005 at 2:38pm
 
Far be it from me to prevent you from fully realizing the due course of your trial and error process......such process, it seems, has kept the 'slippery pivot' of our world firmly in it's place for eons.


Good luck in your pursuits!   Smiley
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SnapCut
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Re: Something new?
Reply #10 - Aug 12th, 2007 at 10:42am
 
I still think that these designs should work with some tweeking mostly to the dart or arrow. They should function similar to the cestrosphendon of history. Look at how its arrow is configured.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #11 - Aug 12th, 2007 at 12:18pm
 
The outward pointing arrow or dart is the natural orientation. More air resistance is the only penalty and will more than be made up for because the dart doesn’t have to realign itself.

Obviously the dart has be short and made of dense material.

I believe Hondero’s cestro works this way. In a modern version the support loop can be replaced by a fishing rod eyelet of the type that has two mounting points. This support is for holding the tail in position on retention cord. Although a more efficient way to sling a dart, proper fins/fletching is a must.    

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1074713443/162#162
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« Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2007 at 1:57pm by Thomas »  
 
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SnapCut
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Re: Something new?
Reply #12 - Aug 12th, 2007 at 3:19pm
 
From the experiment that I did it looked like the arrows long tail (behind the fins) plays an important part in getting the arrow to go right. A mechanical broad on the front would be great and some form of deployable fins would add to it greatly. Have the fins deploy upon release.
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Re: Something new?
Reply #13 - Aug 12th, 2007 at 11:43pm
 
I throw a knives butt first and with a single half rotation (up to about 25 feet).  That led to throwing darts fletching first and seeing them also rotate one half rev and stabilize in flight toward the target.

That being said I think TechStuf is correct in that the direction of flight coming off a sling is NOT in a direction out and away from the direction of the cords but at a 90 degree angle to them... if you study the retention and release mechanism of the cestrosphendon it is designed to release the "arrow" at an orientation perpendicular to the cords.   I have no doubt most any finned projectile will "straighten up and fly right" (pun intended).  However the law of conservation of energy and momentum dictates if you release the "arrow" pointing at a right angle to its flight path, it will have to "burn energy" getting properly oriented... and if two designs were to pit equally powerful slingers with equal techniques (i.e. all other things being equal) then the design releasing the arrow in the proper orientation to its flight will fly farther and faster than the one being released at a right angle to the flight path...  either that or the law of conservation of energy and momentum isn't a law at all...   Wink
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Re: Something new?
Reply #14 - Aug 13th, 2007 at 7:02am
 
the first drawing makes no sense to me - I understand the caliper one.
How on earth is the first one supposed to release the arrow, can't see how those 'balls' can release the arrow with that design. I suspect it makes sense in 3d.
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