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Boats. (Read 8573 times)
Matt_C
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Boats.
Nov 23rd, 2004 at 6:06am
 
Although not strictly a weapon, they are used in warfare and have allowed man to extend his reach into lakes, the river, seas, and oceans.
So how are they built? Which ones are suitable for what?
I am attempting to build a small kayak, so any help would be nice Cheesy.
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DCR
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Re: Boats.
Reply #1 - Nov 23rd, 2004 at 2:19pm
 
Kayaks are super cool. Excellent way for a single person to move swiftly and with great agility on the water.
  The natives of northern-most America were the experts. I believe 'kayak' is an Eskimo word. Try a GOOGLE search and see what comes up.
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english
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Re: Boats.
Reply #2 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 7:30am
 
Probably the easiest type of boat to make (although apparently very time consuming, with lots of manual labour) is a dug out canoe.  A chainsaw, a few adzes, an axe or two, and a great big log is all you need.
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Hellfire
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Re: Boats.
Reply #3 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 8:35am
 
what about fiberglass?
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english
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Re: Boats.
Reply #4 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 8:41am
 
The material that is the dread of primitivists everywhere?


  Yeah, I guess you could use it.
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Matthias
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Re: Boats.
Reply #5 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 12:51pm
 
Gaaaaaahhh!

Angry Fiberglass.

Not only is it toxic stocky, unpleasant and generally evil stuff, but you need to already _have_ a boat shape to start with. I've done my share of repairs, and have built a composite (fiberglass) surf kayak. The main work though was strip planking a wooden plug for the mold. If I was building one boat, I could have paddled the mold (and had a nice pretty wooden boat) for less effort. Composites make sense if you are doing series production, or if you are very carefully (requiring careful design) making use of properties of the material (racing yachts etc) For _most_ one off builds it's a nightmare.

Otoh, epoxy _is_ a decent material for holding wood together. Not in keeping with the spirit of this board, of course, but for a kayak, a good recommenation for beginners (or anybody) is "stitch and glue" plywood. Beautiful/durable/quick-to-assemble designs are possible in this material. I'm fond of glued laptrake construction as well. The faerings and other small boats of Northern Europe have always attracted me.

Strip-planking is another option, but after doing the surf boat like that I'm not a big fan of the process.

Skin-on-frame: I've become a huge advocate for this construction, and probably won't build kayaks at least any other way unless there was a very specific reason for doing so. My boat is completely traditional construction, which means that the only tool you need is a knife. Everything is held together with mortice-end-tenons begs and lashing. The only concession to modern times is the nylon skin (still sewn on as if it were leather) and hypalon paint (toxic, but very minimal exposure and you are never elbow deep in the stuff). Cotton/linen canvas and linseed oil based coatings are a less "modern" option.

Boats built this way go together very quickly and have a design elegance that I find very satisfying. See some picture here:

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=11004114...

I'm going to have to dissagree with english on this one and call reed rafts as being one of the easier primitive constructions. Some pretty sophisticated boats can be made this way given access to suitable materials. Telling about dugouts is that is one of the first types of construction to be abandonned once alternative tools/techniques are available. Not to say that some pinnacles of small craft design haven't been achieved - the war canoes of my area are possibly the prime example, although these are very large boasts. Staying within Canada, it isn't tough to see the technical superiority of birchbark canoes or the skin designs over smaller dugout craft.

Matthias
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Mike_R
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Re: Boats.
Reply #6 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 1:38pm
 
When we were kids my cousin and I made a huck finn raft. And we were stupid ten year olds. So that kind of raft must be easy too. And cool, lots of room to stretch out, not very good for going up river.
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english
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Re: Boats.
Reply #7 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 1:59pm
 
I like the look of those reed boats... In use on Lake Titicaca and (topically) by marsh Arabs in Iraq.  Bloody Saddam.
  I only mentioned dug-outs because 1. they look fairly easy, technically, and 2. I was reading about them in the context of the South Pacific.  But I'd love a birch bark canoe.  Or a reed boat, of course.  I might actually try and make one.  I'll find out how.  There are quite a few phragmites and tulare reeds at the lake near my house.  I'll just need to collect loads.  Actually, they might be dead.  Bummer.
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Matt_C
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Cruachan!!!

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Re: Boats.
Reply #8 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 3:26pm
 
So I can make a dugout from a log, should be a pretty neat project. Unless I have the bad luck to choose say... a rubber tree, that has wood denser then water. Now you might think one of these growing big in Western Europe would be an extreme rarity...but knowing my luck...
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Mike_R
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Re: Boats.
Reply #9 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 3:42pm
 
Hey Matthias, when you make your kayaks what do you make the spray skirt out of? And do you add any kind of flotation to the boat(foam, or air bladders or anything?)
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Douglas_The_Black
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Hakkaa päälle!

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Re: Boats.
Reply #10 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 8:26pm
 
always wanted to make a viking ship. but that is a little bit of a big build for me. i wonder did they have smaller ships? like one -two man  small ships? i dont think they would make good war ships but still.
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Hellfire
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Re: Boats.
Reply #11 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 8:27pm
 
Hey in Minnesota they mad e a viking ship.

They calle d it the Hjemcost
really hug e ship it was too
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Douglas_The_Black
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Hakkaa päälle!

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Re: Boats.
Reply #12 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 8:44pm
 
Cool. if im ever a billionare i will have a fleet of viking ships. screw yachets i want a viking war ship. equicped with greek fire throwers, and staff slingers.
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Matthias
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Re: Boats.
Reply #13 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 9:09pm
 
Of course the Viking etc. had small boats. Some of the most beautiful traditional small boats in the world. Most of the Northern communities had variants of lapstrake hull construction fishing/coastal boats in the 14 - 30 foot range. You have to remember that these guys spent a lot of time fishing between moving settlements, trading and the odd raid Wink. The viking ship museum in Norway has some small craft displayed along side the longships.

Iain Oughtred is probably my favorite modern advocate/designer of scandinavian/shetland/faeroe islands boats. Here is a pic of one of his newer 1-2 man designs. Note the wide strakes (plywood here, originally hewn from giant logs)

...

Quote:
Hey Matthias, when you make your kayaks what do you make the spray skirt out of? And do you add any kind of flotation to the boat(foam, or air bladders or anything?)


My skirt has a nylon deck of the same material as the hull with a standard neoprene tunnel sewn in. A ready made skirt will fit as well (small/river-style) and we have a couple of those (MEC) that we use. What I'd really like is a tuilik, which is a one piece anorak/drysuit cross that you basically lace onto the rim. As long as you stay in the boat, it afford warmth and flexibility. Those inuit guys really didn't have much of a chance if they fell out.

http://www.vejlederkreds.dk/tuilik/Lars.pdf

No flotation beyond the frame - ie: the boat won't sink, but it won't float me in it. These boats are _not_ intended to be self rescueable in any cicumstances other than a roll. Good news is that I have a hard time seeing getting into a situation where a roll isn't possible. Worst case scenario in these boats is a blown spray deck. The cockpit coaming is so low that you ship water really easily. I can do an assisted rescue pretty easily with a partner (the low deck helps here) but there really isn't much point int trying to bail a boat like this. You need to get it dry to start with. A slightly tricky recovery from a wet exit by yourself is a reentry and roll. It is tough to drain the boat by yourself from in the water in rough conditions but doable if you have a little flotation (wetsuit/lifejacket/air trapped in your tuilik). You could very easily put full length bladders in the front/rear if you wanted to. The boat would have almost zero stability swamped but it might be managebable. Bulkheads are pretty much precluded by the construction...

Matthias
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« Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2004 at 10:49pm by Matthias »  
 
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Hellfire
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Re: Boats.
Reply #14 - Nov 24th, 2004 at 9:12pm
 
i should try a boat like that woow
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