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Proposed Outline. v1 (Read 7959 times)
Chris
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Proposed Outline. v1
Aug 3rd, 2004 at 12:05am
 
THE SLING

-------------------
 
• PREFACE.  
- Forgotten weapon.
- Limited literature on the sling.  Reason for book.
- The slings historical significance, and how it shaped the course of history.
- It's significance today.

• ANATOMY OF THE SLING

• PHYSICS OF THE SLING (AND PROJECTILES)

• ORIGINS OF THE SLING
- Where did the sling develop?
- What was the sling used for?
- What other projectile weapons were being used and how did they compare.
- Earliest evidence of use.
- Review of evidence from this era.    

• ANCIENT HISTORY
- Survey the usage of the sling on all the continents.  (Usage in N. America, Africa, etc.)
- Emergence of civilizations; armies.
- (Assyrian/Babylonian/Hebrew/Arab/Egyptian/Rhodian)
- The changing role of the sling.  Hunting and individual defense to instrument of war.  Projectile weapons in concord with melee units.  
- What other projectile weapons were being used and how did they compare?
- Review of evidence from this era.
- Notable military actions with slingers.  

• GREEKS, ROMANS, AND OTHER CONTEMPORY CIVILIZATIONS. (EGYPTIANS?)  

• DARK AND MIDDLE AGES
- Civilization collapses.
- (Saxon, Norman, Celtic, Dacian, Germanic?)
- The sling reverts to it's original role: hunting and limited self defense.  
- Review of evidence from this era.
- Civilization recovers.
- Newer technologies being to displace the sling.
- What other projectile weapons were being used and how did they compare?
- Crusades encounter slings (?)
- Review of evidence from this era.
- Notable military actions with slingers.
 
• THE RENAISSANCE, ENLIGHTENMENT, AND INDUSTRIAL AGE
- Newer technologies displace the sling.  
- What other projectile weapons were being used and how did they compare?
- The time of exploration.  "Modern" western powers encounter the sling. (Aztecs, Incas, Central Pacific, North America).  
- Review of evidence from this era.
- Notable military actions with slingers.

• MODERN
- Spanish Civil war
- Balearic Traditions + many other nations'.
- World War I (II?)
- Palestine
- Today.

• EVOLUTION AND TYPES OF PROJECTILES
- Review historical evidence.
- Explain how projects developed along side the changing role of the sling.  
- Geographical considerations along with usage.

• RELATED WEAPONS TO THE SLING  
- Bolas  
- Staff-sling  
- Cestrosphendon

• SLING TYPES + ROUGH GEOGRAPHICAL DIFFERENCES (MODERN)

• CASTING STYLES

-------------------

• REFERENCES

• INDEX



Please comment and add to this.  We need to develop a good outline before we can begin.  Once we have a good outline, it will make things progress smoothly and quickly.  People can pick a topic they are interested in, research it to death, contacting historians, museums, etc, and write up their little chapter.  Each section shouldn't be more than 3-6 pages from my estimates.  If we all contribute one part, the sum of our work will be an impressive collection of knowledge.  The book would be upwards of 500 pages.  

I think it would be best if each section has someone in charge of it to help coordinate all the people working on the various subjects encompassing it.  That ensures that the text doesn't overlap, and resources are shared.  

So... We are looking for people to adopt sections and topics.  Some people have so much knowledge in particular areas, it's best they apply themselves to that, at least at first.  For instance, Matthias doing the section on the physics of the sling.  

I'd like to hear everyones' ideas.
Chris
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David_T
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #1 - Aug 3rd, 2004 at 9:50pm
 
Wow Chris!

Me thinks we will have to take a bit of time to just think through our great outline.

Don't think I am not interested--I just know its going to take me some days to consider it.

Its a good start!

David
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #2 - Aug 4th, 2004 at 6:32pm
 
500+ pages in just 1 book???.    I much recommend the total work be broken up into Vol I, II, III, etc, so something comes out the end of the pipeline much earlier.      It shouldnt be hard to divide the topics into several vol groupings that make sense.  Then focus all the available manpower on a single vol at a time.

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Chris
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #3 - Aug 4th, 2004 at 11:07pm
 
I agree that we should concentrate on a more defined entity at any given point.  So lets do it by section at a time.  

How about some of the stand alone sections:

• PREFACE  
• ANATOMY OF THE SLING  
• PHYSICS OF THE SLING (AND PROJECTILES)
• SLING TYPES + ROUGH GEOGRAPHICAL DIFFERENCES (MODERN)
• CASTING STYLES


This avoids heavy research, and can get people involved immediately.  There is someone on the forum who could do a wonderful piece on each one of these.

How about I just throw out some names?  I'm willing to start work right away, and make some headway.  If some other people can commit, I'll write it over the next few days.  We'll have several key pieces already completed! 

• PREFACE - Chris H
• ANATOMY OF THE SLING - Jeff H
• PHYSICS OF THE SLING (AND PROJECTILES) - Matthias
• SLING TYPES + ROUGH GEOGRAPHICAL DIFFERENCES (MODERN) - Yurek
• CASTING STYLES - David T

TechStuf?  Foner?  Johnny?  Everyone?  Let me know.  

Chris
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Hobb
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #4 - Aug 5th, 2004 at 4:37pm
 
I just took another look at the outline.  I'm a little confused about the difference in focus between the "Origins of the Sling" section and the "Ancient History" section.  Won't there be a lot of overlap?  "Where did the sling develop" seems a lot like "Survey the usage of the sling for all continents" to me.  Can we clarify the differences, or maybe collapse the sections into one?  I'd hate for folks to duplicate efforts.

Also, how about a section on the sling in literature?  Cuchulain, David & Goliath... or would that just be redundant, since most of the sources for the other papers are likely to be literary?
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Chris
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2004 at 11:26pm
 
Not overlapping is always a serious concern for a book with multiple authors.  

The difference between the "ORIGINS OF THE SLING" and "ANCIENT HISTORY" are quite radical.  You get a sense of it from the questions I pose under each one.  Origins mainly deals with why the sling was first invented: hunting and limited self defense.  This was likely done in Neanderthal times.  

Ancient history is the birth of civilizations (Babylonians, Assyrians, etc.).  The emergence of civilizations, and thus armies, changed the slings role in history.  The technology also increased.  I doubt Neanderthals were casting lead or ceramic glands in huge numbers for military reasons.  Both sections cover important time frames.  

"Also, how about a section on the sling in literature?  Cuchulain, David & Goliath... or would that just be redundant, since most of the sources for the other papers are likely to be literary?"

That would be considered historical evidence, and could be included in the relevant sections.  Historical evidence could also be visual depictions of slingers (on pots, walls, cloth, etc.) or glands scattered on ancient battlefields.  We want to compile everything about the sling into this one volume. 


What section are you interested in writing Hobb?  

Chris
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Hobb
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #6 - Aug 6th, 2004 at 11:06am
 
I was actually wondering if a piece on the sling's role in mythology/theological texts would be appropriate.  I've got no background in history, anthropology, or physics, but I know a little bit about stories.
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #7 - Aug 8th, 2004 at 3:10am
 
I had just deleted a message I would post... them, after a few minutes, I read the message posted by Hobb... and I noticed we had the same idea! "slings in literature" would be nice! I know some books  which has been written by wellknown writers  in spanish but that had been translated into english, who mentions the sling throwing use as a weapon in the Peruvian Andes... we will have to contact the editors, ask their permission to cite the works, and them make a link to the historical information...
Chris and Mithras has a background in history... I am getting a degree in history too (mine is in Education) so, we could search for primary fonts... this will be much easy if we research the sling uses in Greece and Rome, but in  societies  who didn't developed the written use of their languages,we would use pictorical sources...
this is an ambitious project, but if we could do serious historical research, we will contribute not only for the history of weaponry, but maybe for history in general... I have contacts with a goup of University teachers and researches of Ancient Rome and greece, from Brasil, Portugal and Spain, and if I send them a message - we are in a newsgrops about this societies' cultures - I would get preciousless information about primary sources in greek and in latin... the guys from the Balearic Association have a lot of historical and (?) maybe archaelogical information about the use of slings in the Balearic Islands...I lived in Peru and still have good contacts there, I know spanish, and could get information about historical uses in the Andes... Hondero, Foner,Vicente and the other guys who know spanish could work together... Smiley
We can't forgget that there are some societies devoted to the serious study of ancient weapons too, and some of them are on the web, so we could contact them... they could indicate us some bilbiography...
Of course, I can't write so easilyin english, but I have a close frien d who is US citizen, lhe has been living and working in NBevada for many years, and has excellent background both in english - of course - and in humanities, so he could correct my written mistakes...
Just tell me if you agree or not about the necessity to do a rigorous historical research...
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Gun
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #8 - Aug 8th, 2004 at 12:28pm
 
What would be the chances of get the articles on this website to be in the book? I was thinking this could be a extra bonus section or just intagrated in to the book into the approprate sections.
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Chris
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #9 - Aug 8th, 2004 at 11:54pm
 
Hobb, friebejr,

We could have a separate section just covering references to slings in literature.  However, many of these reference would already be covered and analyzed as evidence in the other sections.  The remaining ones wouldn't be all that interesting (although you might be able to develop a page or two just on biblical references, which will less commonly used).  Also, I'm unsure how you could write it up without just making it a list.  Where would the substance come from?  If you can convince me, we'll add it to the outline. 

Gun,
While I wouldn't object to the articles already on the site being made into a book, I really don't think the overall quality would be sufficient.  In a sense, Project Goliath is reworking much of that information into a more professional and polished piece of work.  I'm all for getting this published and printed.  But in order for this to happen, it needs to maintain a high level of quality and consistency, which I'm not sure the current articles have. 

Chris
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Hobb
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2004 at 11:34am
 
My idea hasn't really gelled yet, but I can give you my line of thought so far.  I was thinking of the perception of the sling in America, based on comments from friends and associates.  It seems to be viewed as a child's weapon, like a BB gun or slingshot.  I think this perception comes largely from the David & Goliath story most Americans are familiar with, and the (perhaps erroneous) interpretation of this story as 'little boy beats giant.'  Is the sling always represented as a child's toy?  Does it ever serve as a symbol, and, if so, do common themes emerge across cultures?  Was it thought of as a weapon only wielded by the most skillful, or a weapon only used by ill-equipped underdogs?  Like I said, I haven't thought it all the way through yet, and won't until I start the research and see what resources I can find.
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2004 at 2:08pm
 
Dear Chris:

I was thinking about "slings in literature" as "slings contemporary literature" too, so I never thought of these as evidences. I see them as literature, narratives etc. - but I would never use them as evidences, as they are not historical evidences... you have background in this subject, but to the other guys that don't have it, I will try to explain: if we use texts written during the Roman Empire, for instance, we can analyze it and verificate if we can consider them as sources, or even as evidences... but if we talk about contemporary literature, I wouldn't - as I don't think history ONLY as narrative. I know there is a deep post-modern movement who think like this, but I must say I don't agree with them... i respect all opinions, but I just don't agree with them. It seems to be a "not-so-important-question",  but for me it is not, if I'll work with someone's else, researching together, this question must be clearly discussed, at least for me...
I hope you Chris and the other guys  Winkwon't think of me as  one of that guys who see troubles in everything, ok?  Grin Grin Grin
Concerning the matter of being interesting or not, I think that if the book will have more than 300 pages , we will be able to reach a lot of different people, from students or guys who only want some historical information about their favourite pastime up to weaponry or even history experts... there are nice stories written in spanish - and they probably have been translated into english,  as they were written by famous contemporary writers - in which the sling throwing appears a lot, thinking 20 seconds I remembered one written by Julio Ramon Ribeyro and another by Manuel Scorza. I'll check both titles, in spanish and in english, and I'll tell you... I can bet that ANYONE interested in slings will love both stories... and as Scorza's books often talk about poor people from the Andes fighting for their lives, for they lands, the sling appear as their weapon - even in modern Era, as they were all vey very poor.
I am waiting for your opinion... Wink Wink Wink
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Chris
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #12 - Aug 9th, 2004 at 10:32pm
 
If you wanted to write a section on contemporary literature, thats fine.  I just think we have to be careful not to re-describe historical references that will be included as evidence in other section.  Or, at the very least, describe them in a different context and style, as to not duplicate.

Chris
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friebejr
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #13 - Aug 9th, 2004 at 10:44pm
 
Smiley Thank you very much, Chris.
I'll wait a little more... I agree with you, we must take care not to repeat ourselves... if I can contribute with something to the historical research I will be completely satisfied!
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Re: Proposed Outline. v1
Reply #14 - Aug 12th, 2004 at 6:08am
 
It sounds good, apart from saying "Civilisation recovers" after the dark ages; the saxons, and Germanic tribes were very advanced, their swords being more advanced than even Japanese swords.  That's my ancestors your talking about!
  I think you'd need to have a chapter comparing the sling to other weapons - that would certainly explain any importance it might have had to lots of cultures.  For example, taking Yurek's average throws as being typical, and any archers around with traditional bows (and I mean traditional - not just traditional because it says so and it's made of wood) ranges as typical, you could draw up a table.  That kind of thing.
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