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Sling bullets (Read 7447 times)
english
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Sling bullets
Feb 11th, 2004 at 4:30pm
 
I was curious to check out the article about Roman sling bullets of lead.  I had always assumed tat the shape increased range and accuracy and all that.  But reading the article, I saw that the results were inconclusive.  And that got me thinking as to why they would make them that shape.  I then went out and was using my split pouch sling, of two pieces of long cord split in the middle, and occasionally, if the stone was a slightly awkward shape, it would just come out of the back of the sling rather than being released when I let go.  I had made some blu-tac glandes shapes, which I intended to sling.  I put one in my pouch and was interested to see that no matter how vigorously I swung the sling, no matter how badly positioned the blu tac bullet, it never came out.  I also saw that Balearic slingers, the mainstay of the Roman slinging force, used split pouch slings similar to mine.  Perhaps that is why the shape is the way it is.  Anyway, that is my view.  Anyone else got suggestions, because I was going to make some out of clay (I cannot afford lead or anything like that) and I wanted to be certain before I made them.
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Chris
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #1 - Feb 11th, 2004 at 5:44pm
 
People have speculated that the non-spherical shape was to help the projectile stay in the pouch, as you suggest.  Other people have noted that it is possible that the projectile would orient itself point-first due to air resistance.  The pointedness would increase the penetration capability tremendously.

I think both arguments have merit, and can be proved with testing.  I await your research articles in my inbox.   Tongue

Chris
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english
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2004 at 4:32am
 
I don't think that the projectiles do orient themselves; I know I was only using blu-tac, but it was the right shape, and it is heavier than it looks.  ALL my projectiles stayed the same in terms of orientation after being released; they stayed on their sides.
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Chris
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #3 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 12:34am
 
How could you view them in-flight?

Chris
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english
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #4 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:36am
 
Well, I slung them really, really high, in a nice arc; when it started to come down, and even before then, I could see them perfectly outlined.  I mean, they were travelling quite slowly, so it wasn't difficult.  I was in the middle of a large field, so I had plenty of room, and I wasn't shooting at a target, once I started to do some real tests.  And basically what I saw was a rugby ball shaped object, from the side, flying through the air.
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Chris
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #5 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:28pm
 
When you saying flying sideways, you mean the longest side is presented in the direction of motion?  In order to get the projectile to fly correctly, (like the rotation of an american football or bullet), the shape has to be very specific (the release is also important, but that is much harder to control with a sling, so we have to figure out how to do without it).  Perhaps someone can make a droplette shaped projectile?  That would have the best chance of in-flight orientation. 

Chris
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Ulrica
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 3:41pm
 
WouldnŽt a droplette-shape turn the heaviest side first after some seconds, even if you let it go with the point first?? Or am I thinking totally wrong here?

If I remember it correct from school ( long, long time ago) when we dropped a thing, with a heavy end up, it turned on the way down, so the heavy end reched the floor first...

Or is it a question about balance...

Well, IŽm too tired for these kind of questions right now

Ulrica


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May the stones go your way&&&&//Ulrica
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David_T
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 6:15pm
 
I don't want to sound smart or anything but I know for an absolute fact that almost every elongated shape will in varying degrees, orient themselves do to the spiralling effect of the release. In the last few months I have slung literally thousands of odd shaped concrete and I know I can pick up any elongated piece, sling it,  and watch it wabble wabble wabble its way into tighter smoother football type spiral. It may not be absolutely "point first" it may be  sideways a bit but even then--if it has enought room before it hits, it will begin to curve/ fade /travel in the direction of the point that is forward and thus become even more point first.  I see it evey time I sling. Especially at 50 yrds plus
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 8:05pm
 
And I remain defiant in my insistence that the reason they are flat is to make that gawdawful buzzing sound like a bee ready to sting and scare the beejesus outta the opposing troops.  That's my theory and I'm sticking (stuck) with it.   Undecided
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 8:47pm
 
English, ....you see some diff of opinion re this.   I'm of the thot that early slingsters could indeed throw NFL quarterback spirals w the little lead footballs, and we (especially Dan_B  Grin) just havent figgered out how to do it (yet).   

I've got a batch of plaster-of-paris "eggs" cast & painted half red & half white.   When it warms up a bit (by June here), I intend to film some launches for sloo-mo playback to see exactly how these eggs leave the pocket at launch.   In the meantime, see the 24Dec2003 posting, "Correctly Slinging Footballs".     This group will probably figger this out in the next year or so.

It would be no surprise either if we tended to gravitate toward just 1 or 2 slinging styles.   This forum is a work in early stages of progress, and that makes it fun.  We're flat makin' sling history here!   mgreenfield
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 10:08pm
 
Don't you just love the sound the flat ones make! Of course it means there is a lot of drag-- but if you're not going for distance, who cares.
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #11 - Feb 16th, 2004 at 1:18pm
 
Quote:
WouldnŽt a droplette-shape turn the heaviest side first after some seconds, even if you let it go with the point first?? Or am I thinking totally wrong here?

If I remember it correct from school ( long, long time ago) when we dropped a thing, with a heavy end up, it turned on the way down, so the heavy end reched the floor first...

Or is it a question about balance...

Well, IŽm too tired for these kind of questions right now

Ulrica





Very good observation, Ulrica, and that drop shape is the secret of point-first throwing, among others things, in my opinion. When I have the time IŽll try to expand my view of the subjet, that always is on debate and that is fundamental for that world distance record we are preparing (well... Yurek  Undecided )
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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Yurek
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #12 - Feb 16th, 2004 at 6:45pm
 
During my first play with the lead projectiles I used 5 "droplets" and 5 "footbals". But I can't say which of them were really better. I only know that one of all them surely exeeded the intentional distance, the others... maybe yes or maybe no.  There was too little throws in order to generalize, but the "droplets" flied turbulently more often than the "footballs". There was no wind, so I heard their gentle hum and saw the twinkle. I suppose it was a result of their asymetrical shape. They veer durring rolling in the pouch, simillar like a cone on a plane. They had a ratio about 0.52 (~1:2). Most probably this is too big ratio for that velocity, and doesn't give a proper aerodynamic adventage in relation to "footballs"

Durring second and the best my try I used only the "footballs" and the most of them seemed to fly calmly and far.

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #13 - Feb 17th, 2004 at 3:31am
 
Yes, that would be the problem with droplets, the  right placement and balance in the pouche for not to go out with erratic flight. I think the droplet shape must be slight too.
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Re: Sling bullets
Reply #14 - Feb 17th, 2004 at 8:48am
 
I'm not ready to give up on an airfoil shape yet. It is clear that they have the best inflight performance if only they can be released well with no tumbling. So, the secret lies in the sling, not the stone. Dan

fyi:  Water droplets don't look like the NACA airfoil shape I posted. They look like squashed spheres.
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