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Never forget (or not) (Read 3326 times)
Foner
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Never forget (or not)
Jan 27th, 2004 at 11:38am
 
Paradox: we, people from different parts of the world, get together here to talk about an activity that has been part of our culture since Ayla's time. We talk basicly from the technical point of view, as you demand. And we do it in exercise of a freedom conquered in part by the use of the sling. By that example I just was trying to express that paradox: we can freely talk about sling because the sling gave us in part that freedom. That's all. Can't we exceed the materialistic level of slinging in this forum?. Then I beg forgiveness
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JeffH
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2004 at 5:13pm
 
Foner, Welcome to this most excellent forum and venue for the discussion and promotion of one of the oldest, most formidable and exceedingly fun projectile weapons, the most venerable and honorable SLING.

So, come on in and join us.  You will find this to be THE place to find info on the web about the sling.  Everyone is friendly and receptive.  You will quickly become one of the family and be right at home.


The rest of this post will be highly philosophical and subject to my fellow moderator's discretion for removal if it is deemed necessary.  It is meant in no way to aggrevate or incite, though both may happen.

I am not sure what you mean by "exceed the materialistic level of slinging".  The sling is an impliment of the material and the physiological. Nothing more or less.  Philosophy is conspicuously absent from most of our discussions because the art and sport of slinging are conspicuously devoid of ideology and philosophy.  History is replete with references to the sling, and you will find those mentioned frequently.  Historical fact, should not be confused with politics, etc.

Slinging, in and of itself, has only one level and that is material.  Styles of slings and different techniques are still material.  Derived from different cultures and needs, these may in some way be references to their cultures, but no more so than pottery or textiles.  Culture influences them, but they remain a-cultural in the most. 

I must admit that I am at a loss when reading your post.  This site represents neither parodox nor contradiction of any sort.  The objects we use for fun or war are inanimate and are only interjections into our discourses on history, ideology and so forth. Discussions of freedom and how it is won are more appropriately centered around the courageous, heroic people who fought for those freedoms, not their weapons.  The weapons are incidental and emminently separable from the people and activities.

I am Christian, American, Anglo/Cherokee, right-handed, republican, fiercely nationalistic and so on and so forth.  My slings do not adhere to any of those things.  My slings are a-political, non-nationalistic, and a-moral in all respects.  They remain inanimate.  Ipso, my comradery with the people here transends that which is philosophical, or ideological.  We discuss the sling.  It is of interest to us all, outside our differences.  I have slinging buddies from Poland, Spain, Sweden, the U.S., and so forth.  They are from different backgrounds and have widely varying beliefs and ways of thinking.  Indeed, I hope to some day sling with some of my friends. (I have an urge to write another poem. One about slinging with my friends.  O', for another time.)


jeff <><
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« Last Edit: Jan 27th, 2004 at 7:16pm by JeffH »  

So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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mgreenfield
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2004 at 8:03pm
 
....wow!  Perfectly stated & I cudnt agree more.  mgreenfield
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Chris
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #3 - Jan 28th, 2004 at 12:40am
 
We often talk about the sling's history and it's important role in ancient (and even modern) battles.  It was an important weapon that certainly shaped the face of the planet back then, and subsequently today.  Certainly, with all weapon-sports, like archery or fencing, technical skills are at the forefront.  Slinging.org, however, is also aimed at the oft-overlooked historical importance.  Nevertheless, talking about modern day implications to the sling's historical role is outside the scope of this website.  We are all very different people, with different religious and political beliefs, and I'm sure if we wanted, could rant and rave about our beliefs all day.  But there are lots of websites out there for that; This is a site about the sling. 

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Foner
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Slinging in the rain

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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #4 - Jan 28th, 2004 at 3:29am
 
I just will say that everything that men or women build with their hands is culture. In fact, as philosophers, anthropologists and paleontologists say, any transformation of the nature is CULTURE. Slings would not exist without the intervention of men. Obviously, slings don't grow spontaneously in the trees.

Therefore, anyone can make as much philosophical considerations over slinging as wanted. Obviously, those philosophical considerations not necessarily mean political considerations. Nevertheless, if you read something "political" in my words, it was just about democratic values (I was talking about freedom). And those are something in which all of us believe. I don't accept other political values (like dictatorship).

However, I want you to know that I wasn't talking about politics. I was talking about the conquest of freedom. And I don't think that only the courage of people is necessary to gain that. History has taught us that things will not just be accomplished with courage, we nead some means and instruments.
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english
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 10:20am
 
Well, I have always thought that anyone trying to impose their ideas onto anyone else is wrong, absolutely; I am an anarchist, technically, in this viewpoint, as I also believe other things, which I will not post for fear of inciting arguments.  I think that weaponry is just a way of someone trying to enforce their ideas onto someone else.  But I am still interested in history, and the history of weapons.  I am a pacifist (up to a point), and yet I will still own a sling.  I think hunting is alright, so if I wanted to hunt, and it was legal, I would.  I would only use weaponry against another human if I felt my rights as a human individual were being infringed, if I could no longer go where I wished, or see what I want.  Say, for example, someone was invading my country; I could no longer do the things I would normally do, or want to do.  I would probably do my utmost to defend my rights, even if that included taking a weapon to someone.  So perhaps that is why i own a sling.  Perhaps I just like slinging stones at targets.  Anyway, I think I am rambling, so I should stop right now.
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 10:40am
 
This is sure to be an interesting thread.   Grin

Jeff, you say, "The sling is an impliment of the material and the physiological. Nothing more or less."

I think there is a psychological aspect as well. This is easy to prove. We all have had fun slinging or been frustrated by it. An emotional reaction is proof of something psychological going on. Not to mention that this is a hobby and hobbies are considered psychologically therapeutic.

I think there is something Zen-like about slinging. Throwing stone is innate to humans I think. It could even be hard-wired in our reptilian brains. There is something primal about throwing rocks. I also think there is something satisfying about hitting the mark.

If the sling was only material, there wouldn't be a forum devoted to it, nor would be spend so much time here.
just some thoughts.   Dan
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Hondero
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Don.tRe: Never forget (or not)
Reply #7 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 11:27am
 
Don´t you know how much I agree with youˇˇ Smiley
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He brought a conquering sword..., a shield..., a spear... , a sling from which no erring shot was discharged.&&
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english
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #8 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 11:37am
 
I also agree to what you say.
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JeffH
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Don't stand behind me,
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #9 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 5:19pm
 
Dan,

First, anthropomorphizing is great to an extent, but implying that slings are psychological is beyond that extent. Slings are inanimate, without feeling, thought, volition, or anything else created or derived from we who use them.   Slings do not teach, hypnotize or add to the body of knowledge and understanding held by humans.  Slings do not know hunger, pain, thirst, love, pity, hate or fear.  They are incapable of going to war, writing poetry or reproducing.  Slings don't kill people; people kill people and sometimes use slings to do so.  Slings do not compete in the olympics, yet I hope that someday someone will use a sling in them.

The DESIRE TO THROW is human and cannot be attributed to rocks, wool, leather, slings, catapults, trebuchets and so forth.  I believe that what you are doing is projecting your own response to the sling back onto the sling and then saying that the sling is the source of the response.  In reality, however, you could have the same response to any number of things (and probably do).  Ipso, it is not the sling which produces the things you are describing, but your own mind.

Now, understand, I am not being argumentative here.  I am, in fact, only trying to clarify some terms.  I find that we often have trouble communicating because we don't define our terms very well.  Case in point:  English describes himself as a pacifist anarchist who is opposed to forcing ideas on others unless they try to force their ideas on him first.  English is a nice guy who is contributing a considerable amount of information to this web site.  But, his discription of himself contains mutually exclusive terms.  That is, of course, his perogotive and I would argue on his behalf to hold to whatever ideology he likes.   It is simply harder to get down to the business of talking about the sling when I am confusing the issue by trying to get into the sling's mind and figure out why it likes to throw rocks.

My point here is that it is we that promulgate war and peace, philosophy and literature.  The sling is a tool we use to do so, nothing more or less.  So, when we speak of "exceeding the materialistic" or the "psychological" and so on,  we are speaking of ourselves.  The instruments we use to test or carry out our ideas and desires are incidental.  Therefore, discussing the sling itself is an exercise in the material and physiological.  I refer to my first post in this thread for clarification on this point.

Second, my brain is not reptillian.  It is a complex and unique structure designed and created by an infinite and personal God.  That makes ME a personal, intentional and purposeful creation that behaves, more or less, as I was intended to behave because I, like any creation, am accountable to my creator and his design.  This includes my desire to put my hand to things and make them work.  Things like a table saw, milling machine, gun, computer, sling, etc.  My desire to throw things is inate, but not accidental in any way.   

Conversely, slings cannot relate to their creators on any level.  They can neither praise nor hate those who make them.  They are not personal and do not seek out relationships with their masters.  They remain conspicously devoid of any human qualities.

Jeff <>< who really likes this thread
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 6:00pm
 
Jeff,  I'm liking this thread, too.  I'm going to study and think about your reply for awhile before responding in order to do it the justice it deserves.

However, I can comment on your statement, "my brain is not reptillian" now.  I should have put "reptilian brain" in quotes or explained it, which I'll do now.

The human brain has three distinct areas, which evolved along with the rest of us. The oldest part, that which we inherit from our distant amphibian relatives that came out of the ocean is call the 'reptilian brain'. Ever get on a bicycle after not having ridden one for years only to find you are still know how?  You can thank the reptilian portion of your brain for that.

Also called the 'old brain' it is responsible for autonomic functions like breathing and heartrate as well as the base emotions like love and hate, and our 'fight or flight' response. And, learned muscle control like throwing stones.

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JeffH
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Don't stand behind me,
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #11 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 6:33pm
 
Dan,  I think you did not read my post.  My brain has no reptillian portions.  None, nada, zilch.  It functions the way God made it to from the beginning, not via a blind senseless process which renders you and I purposeless.  I don't have any amphibian or reptillian relatives.   Now, a few of them are jackasses and so forth, but that is only metaphorical. Grin Grin Grin Grin

This is leading exactly where I tried to prevent it going with my original post to Foner.   When we move away from the things which the sling most assuredly is (physical and material), we too quickly move to those things this site was not exactly established to promote (or not promote for that matter) just as Chris, who owns the site, stated early on.

I personally am not opposed to people stating what they believe in the realms of religion, politics, culture and so on.  But, making a stump out of this site is inappropriate.  This is the wish of the site's creator and we should abide by that.  If I started a site I would call it something like "The Sling and Its Place in God's Holy Plan".  But this is not my site, and I respect that.

My response to Foner was an attempt to put a halt to what was surely going to get very subjective and probably personal before it was over.  I don't mean to attribute malice to you or Foner or English or me or anyone else.  Far from it.  But moving outside the reality of the sling and anthropomorphizing it is a good way to stir the mud in the puddle.  That said, I am probably as guilty as any one of putting in my $0.02 when I should keep it to myself.

I am not ashamed of anything I believe and am always looking for a place to discuss it (any of it, all of it.)  But, this is a place to discuss the sling, which you and I enjoy quite a lot.  I am all for history and facts, but only as far as they apply.

Again, I refer you to my original post for the sake of retaining a resemblence to the intent of of Chris's most noble endeavor, slinging.org.

Jeff <>< who likes the smiley faces Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked 8) ??? Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry

P.S.  you are always welcome to e-mail me personally to discuss any issue you like.  I am neither opposed to that or timid about doing so. Smiley
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Dan_Bollinger
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 8:20pm
 
Jeff,  I think I'm beginning to understand your world-view a little. Thanks for sharing it, it helps.

Your conversation reminds me of one I had with a Bahai buddy of mine who talked about the physical versus spiritual world with no room for philosophy or psychology in between. But that was him, not you.

Regardless, it doesn't seem like your world-view and mine have much in the way of common ground, so I'm going to respectfully bow out of this discussion. yours, Dan
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Chris
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Re: Never forget (or not)
Reply #13 - Feb 22nd, 2004 at 11:00pm
 
Guys, I don't want this to turn into some religious debate.  We're all friends and slinging-enthusiasts here.  Lets leave it at that. 

Chris
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