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David_T
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Dec 16th, 2003 at 1:29am
 
Hey Guys,

This lazy, non- scientific guy needs help. I am looking at netting for a backstop. They sent me some samples and one is a nylon 3/16 netting for archery. They say it is for no more than a 30 pound bow pull  using practice tips.

If I were to make lead glands of 2-4 oz, would they have as much force as an arrow shot from a bow with 30lbs pull?? I would guess that a glande would have less since the point would be much more blunt and larger?? Thanks for any info you science wizzes can give.
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JeffH
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Re: Help
Reply #1 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 10:04am
 
David,

This is a hard one.  The impact energy is fairly easy to calculate, but.....

The point load of the projectile's impact area is going to be more difficult.  You are, however, correct that the glande will be more blunt than the arrow to some degree.

A 30 lb bow shoots a 300 grain arrow in the neighborhood of 14 to 20 ft lbs just as it leaves the bow.  A 2 oz glande at 150 fps would have 43 ft lbs but would loose this very rapidly.  The impact area would be greater also so should, in theory, cause less damage to the netting.

This is all theory though.  Anything thrown from a sling will be quite damaging in its own way.  Ben uses a tarp with some success.  I have slung rocks and seen them clip off good size branches of trees.  It is hard to tell what will happen to your target without some practice.

jeff <><
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Yurek
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Reply #2 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 5:57pm
 
David,

Maybe this net is strong enough for the glandes or not. I'm afraid you must try one to know surely. If the one net doesn't appear strong enough and isn't too expensive, then you could enclose the second one close behind. I think it should work. Just the so-so idea Smiley

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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David_T
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Reply #3 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 8:21pm
 
Thanks Jeff and Yurek,

I was all set to get the 3/4" netting but then they sent that sample of 3/16" Archery netting Angry I think it would work OK for a backstop-- even the lead glands if I use a heavy rubber pad as the target area. It would be nice to have a place to experiment with lead glands.
The Archery netting would run almost $400 for two pieces 10' x 20'.  The 3/4" netting was 25' x25' and cost $250--decisions, decisions Undecided
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Chris
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Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 10:40pm
 
Hold on.  The 3/4" netting costs $250 for a 25'x25' foot piece while the 3/16" netting costs $400 for a 20'x20' (2 times 10'x20')?  I must be missing something....  Just get the 3/4" if it costs less and is stronger.....

As for the netting strength, I think you'd be ok.  Arrows, even practice ones, are designed to penetrate targets.  You'd have to fire a gland really hard to embed it in a target like an arrow.  The force might be greater with a gland, but it's penetration force is much less.  I think you'd be ok, but don't blame me if they start going through...  Tongue

Chris
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JeffH
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Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2003 at 11:34pm
 
Chris,

I think this is just netting if I understoon David's post.  3/4" is actually quite large if you think of the stretch it could have.  The glandes could go thru that.

3/16" sounds much better for stopping glandes.

jeff <><
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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David_T
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Reply #6 - Dec 17th, 2003 at 9:25am
 
Chris and Jeff,

Yes, I think the 3/4" netting sounds better price wise. I just figure that if I am going to spend money on a net, and go through the trouble of putting up poles and cables... it would sure be nice to be able to shoot smaller glands at it as well. I wrote and aked the sales rep how long a life the net would have if it was just left up all the time.

The glands would pass through the 3/4" netting unless it hit on the long.

By the way, the officer with the radar gun is going to meet me on Friday to see if we can get a speed reading on my slinging Grin Grin Grin

Thanks for the input-- I love this forum!
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Chris
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Reply #7 - Dec 17th, 2003 at 3:49pm
 
Ahh, the 3/4" and 3/16" netting refers to the projectile tip size, right?  I was thinking something totally different. 

10' x 20' is really pretty huge!  Wouldn't one piece be enough?

Let us know how it works out. 
Chris
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David_T
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Reply #8 - Dec 17th, 2003 at 9:46pm
 
The 3/4" and the 3/16" is the actual size of the openings in the nylon weave of the nets. The 3/16" would stop any small gland I would make-- I am pretty sure. Undecided

With new people that may want to try the sling and slinging from 50 yards with my son I figure the 10ft height would miss too many wild shots--especially if people try the underhand release.
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Reply #9 - Dec 18th, 2003 at 11:38am
 
A much cheaper way to stop a gland or even a slow arrow would be to hang a bed sheet from the top only.  Letting the bottom hang freely would absorb the impact and the gland would fall to the ground.  if you need a larger backstop just sew two together.
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Chris
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Reply #10 - Dec 18th, 2003 at 5:52pm
 
Welcome flack13,

I thought about this, but people have tried similar with tarps before, and the glands just go right through it.  Although sheets are a woven material, I still don't think it would be 100% safe.  Plus they wouldn't hold up so well outside, exposed to the elements.

Chris
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nwmanitou
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Re: Help
Reply #11 - Dec 18th, 2003 at 6:47pm
 
If you aren't interested in recovering your ammo, just go sling in a field or the woods. As far as a backstop, some canvas or old curtains should do the trick, Just make sure they are only fastened at the top as a previous poster mentioned. You need the backstop to absorb and dissipate the energy, if it is tied down the stone will punch right through it. I've had stones pass through a front door then through the wall across the room.(condemned house). I've embedded stones into Fence posts, wood siding, Hit a metal gate so hard with a golfball it not only left a deep dent it left the dimpling imprinted on the pipe, put a stone through an inch of plywood and almost got one through an old stop sign.  They certainly can be powerfull and you'd be hard pressed to find something that would stop a stone let alone a lead projectile with out being able to give.
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JeffH
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Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2003 at 7:22pm
 
Whoa, now mr.,  dimpling on metal pipe, stones thru and inch of plywood and stones almost thru stop signs?  Care to explain that a little better, or should I just get out my hyperbole detector and aim it at your posts?

No offense intended of course, this just sounds a bit exagerated to say the least.


jeff <><

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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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nwmanitou
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Reply #13 - Dec 18th, 2003 at 8:11pm
 
hehe, it usually does.  Well, believe me I was just as surprised to see what a sling could do. Here are the circumstances for those shots:

It was a fence post in Montpelier Idaho that I stuck a rock into from about 15 yrds. I think the posts were made of pine. It was at this same location that I hit a cattle gate with a golfball (not intentionally) I was just trying to wing it as far as I could. When we got up to it the ball had dented the pipe the gate was made of, and left a definite imprint of the dimples (I'm sure the paint on the gate helped a lot with the imprint). My guess is that the gate wasn't made of steel or at least really thin. But then again, I've dented alluminum Dividers (the type you would seal off a room with, kindof like a folding wall) with a tennis ball. The inch of plywood was an old home made freezer door (in the trash) It belonged to a friend of mine who is also a butcher. The Door consisted of two sheets of half inch plywood on either side of a frame made of 2x4's. I was maybe 10 feet from the door using rocks about 1 1/2 the size of a large chicken egg. The rocks that hit on the 2x4's didn't go through though they smashed the plywood and cracked some of the 2x4's. The rocks that hit only plywood went through both sides about 80% of the time.  I used the same size rocks on a stopsign that I found by a railroad track (it had been knocked over). With all the strength I had I got some of the rocks to puncture the Steel in the sign. They managed to really dent it deeply and due to the sharp edges of the rocks by the train track, some of them punctured the metal but didn't pass through. I've always wondered if I could get a lead ball to pass through. There was an abandoned house scheduled for demolition near my apartment surrounded by a large farmers field. At first I just slung apples at it (my favorite ammo) then I tried some rocks. The rocks routinely embedded themselves in the wood siding. At a distance of a couple of yards it was easy to sling a rock clean through front door and after going inside I discovered that the rocks had gone through the drywall of the opposing wall as well. 

I've only met two people in my life with an interest in slings. One was my cousing who taught me how to make them when I was 6. Another was a doctor with an interest in ancient weaponry who showed me a very powerful and accurate way to sling. Most of these penetration tests were conducted just after I learned this new slinging technique. 

I'm absolutely floored to find this site. I've actually done searches for sling related webpages before and have never found a thing. I hope my introduction to this board hasn't been to flamboyant, but I certainly look forward to lurking around it some more.
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Chris
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Re: Help
Reply #14 - Dec 19th, 2003 at 1:33am
 
Welcome nwmanitou,

You've certainly got an arm there!  What type of projectiles do you generally use (type, size, weight)?  What is your typical maximum range?

I've only communicated with a few people who can generate that type of force.  I've punched through 3/4" plywood before, but not often, and certainly not steel signs and such. 

Chris
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