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Slinging Arrows (Read 3523 times)
Whipartist
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Slinging Arrows
Oct 28th, 2003 at 11:50pm
 
I have another idea I just remembered.  This relates to hunting, but I think it's worthy of it's own topic.  Years ago I thought it up after researching on slings. 

Now maybe Chris knows the answer to this?  I read once in a big encyclopedia, that in ancient times, there was a sling that could sling arrows!  There was a certain empire that used them or something.  Have you heard of this Chris?  Or anyone else?  I had forgotten about it till now, but a few years ago I was turning the idea over in my head.  This could be a very good hunting weapon if well made!

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make such a sling?  I would figure that it would take the arrow some time to stabilize in flight depending on the design.  A few years ago I did some small experiments of my own  Wink  Here's how.

Get a big but sharp sewing needle and put some thread through the eye.  A small needle will work too, but the bigger the needle the better.  It needs to be sharp.  Let the thread run out of the eye as a double strand, about 1.5', depending on how heavy your needle is.  Tie a little knot on the end to hold onto when you use it.

Make sure nobody is around!!!!  Then whirl it around and sling it at the wall from a few yards away.  Make sure you do this in a place where if you loose the needle, you won't find it in your foot or child's mouth at a later date! 

The needle provides the weight, and the thread provides the mechanical advantage, release node, and needle stabilization system. 

You release the needle and thread together.  This isn't really a sling, it's more of a miniature arrow with a thread hanging off the back end.

This worked perfectly for me every time when I tried it a few years back.  I never missed a stick.  The needle is propelled by the sling principal.  The thread trailing it's back end, instantly stabilizes it's flight like the fletchings on an arrow!  It's a fun little activity.

Now what if we were to do this with a full size system?  We would have a very sharp projectile that weights around 4oz and travels very fast and aerodynamic.  The impact energy would be very high and the momentum would drive the arrow deep into any target it hit.

Think about it!  Something like this maybe? 

     <>=====+-------------------------------+

That design has a heavy head, a 1' or so long shaft, and the release cord could be around 2' foot long.  Depending on what the release cord is made of, it should provide all the drag needed to stabilize the arrow.  We'd have to experiment.  Small cords, big cords, so on and etc....

Another design could be an arrow with the weight incorporated throughout the length of the arrow instead of having it concentrated at the head.  This may not stabilize as well?  But the needle is of this type and has no issue with stabilization.  An arrow of this sort would have excellent penetration. 

Here's some ideas I have on how to make these ideas work in reality.  Fill a big gauge, hollow metal arrow with molten lead or solder till it weighs a few ounces.  I'd recommend 4oz.  Depending on how much arrow length it takes to get to that weight, cut the arrow to that length or a little longer if possible, and attach a small cord to the back end.  The fletchings will be counterproductive to the efficiency of the system so make sure you leave them off.  I'm hoping the arrow wouldn't need to be over a foot and a half long inorder to hold that much lead.  I would try this all out myself but I don't really have the place.

Anyone with enough enthusiasm, give it a try?

Anyone who has an idea on how to make an actual sling that shoots arrows?  Any ideas?  I'm excited to hear.

                                              Ben

I don't have the place to experiment with designs but I'm very curious.
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Chris
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #1 - Oct 29th, 2003 at 12:56am
 
A Atlatl is basically an arrow throwing sling.  Same principle, just with a solid stick instead of a flexible cord. 

I could see how a needle would work, but an arrow is considerably larger.  The arrow will always point outwards as you sling it around, and since projectiles fly away tangential to the release point, your arrow will fly out sideways for a while.  Since it's much heaver than a needle, the string won't correct the orientation as nicely or as quickly.  It might work, but I don't think it wouldn't have the power of a regular sling or a bow.

It reminds me off hammer throwing in the olympics. 

Interesting idea though.
Chris
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David_T
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #2 - Oct 30th, 2003 at 8:56pm
 
Ben,

You are talking about using the string attached to the arrow as the cord for throwing it right? You don't mean putting the arrow in a regular sling??

That is a neat idea. You could have a little knot on the end of it as a release knot?. That would work with throwing a knife too I would think. Now you have me curious. Maybe more than one sting for heavier things like knives? Somebody needs to give it a try!
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JeffH
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #3 - Oct 30th, 2003 at 9:40pm
 
I have only heard of the Atlatl.  This is a cool varient of the sling concept.  About 8 years ago, I saw some for sale.  The also had some 6 ft Aluminum Easton arrow shafts with broad heads, and target points.  I should have gotten one while I had a chance.

jeff <><
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Whipartist
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #4 - Oct 31st, 2003 at 10:29pm
 
Yeah I'm talking about attaching the cord to the arrow permanently.  I may try this out someday.  Try the experiment out with the needle.  Make sure the needle is really sharp, because it doesn't have enough weight to have very much power.  the thread stabilizes it extremely well.  Much better than fletchings.  I think with the right weight distribution, it would work.  Only experimentation can tell though.

The atlatl is a really awesome weapon with quite a bit of power.  I've never used one, but from what I hear, it's awesome.
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nemesis_3003
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #5 - Nov 2nd, 2003 at 7:35pm
 
hey ben u should look through leonardo devincis drawings Wink
jack
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Luke
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #6 - Nov 3rd, 2003 at 6:16pm
 
I picked up this really cool old book today on crossbows, siege weapons and turkish bows, with tons of old drawings in it. It has a chapter on arrow slinging and it describes an arrow made of hazel (not really for warfare but for sport)  31" long and that slowly tapers from 3/16" at the rear, and 5/16" at the head which is carved into a blunt point (it balances 13" back from the head). Once you have your arrow made you tie a hard, strong string (about 1/16 diameter) around the shaft 16" back from the head and tie it so that it slips off the back but is stopped from going forward by the taper in the arrow. You then wrap the string around your index finger and hold the arrow like you would a dart and throw it at an upward angle giving the arrow power by means of the index finger. According to the book a properly made arrow and a thrower with some practice can throw the arrow aprox. 270-280yds....

Hope that all made sense. Now I need to go find myself some hazel Cheesy
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #7 - Nov 4th, 2003 at 5:44am
 
The technique with the hasel arrow works well with an aluminium arrow.I can get 100 metres without really trying.Once when I was playing aroung with an atlatl an English guy came up to me and talked about how they throw those same hasel arrows in some parts of England today.The ancient Maori here in NZ had a similar weapon - long spear stuck in the ground with a breakaway flax string attached - similar throwing action  for the same result.It wasn't a favoured weapon as the ancient Maori was more into hand to hand combat. So grab some string + and aluminium arrow and go for it. Be aware it WILL go further than you think!
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Chris
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #8 - Nov 4th, 2003 at 2:50pm
 
Pretty cool.  I'll have to give it a try.

Chris
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Whipartist
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #9 - Nov 4th, 2003 at 7:48pm
 
270-280yds.... !!!  YIKES.  Stick around Kiwi.  Ben
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #10 - Nov 19th, 2003 at 12:16am
 
Ive played around with a string loosly attached to an arrow, just like Luke explained, didnt have much success. Arrow was 600 grains and I couldnt get it past 30 yards and no accuracy at all. ive had a little better success with throwing a dart with it but still not much accuracy at all.

This just reminded me of something, using an addition of wood instead of just your hand, and you get more accuracy with it, with darts. I read the idea in a book and decided to try it out. My experiments were posted on Primitive Archer forum but my friend Daryl wanted to put it on his website. Theres pics too.

http://www.thudscave.com/npaa/designs/baton.htm

I have written somewhere in there  " I was throwing a 2.3 ounce, 6 foot dart 50 yards. With an atlatl the max I can throw that same dart is 70 yards sooooo its something to play around with ". That was back last winter, but in the meantime Ive upped my range with that dart to 100 yards but never tried it with the baton (oh yes atlatl distance also has something to do with strength, even if its a little portion). I no longer have the dart nor the baton.

Try finding a balance point on your dart and tie a small string loop on the bottom of the balance, for room for your index and the next finger beside it to just fit onto the fingertips. Try throwing like that, Ive been getting 50 yards WITH accuracy like that with a 4.1 ounce dart. Same dart I can throw 80 with atlatl.

Back to the "baton" heavy fresh green shoots with the bark still on worked the best because the string "held" onto the dart better. Too many rotations of the string and as you threw it, well the baton would go with the dart, not matter how hard you held onto it, the dart was just travelling too fast and the baton just flew away with it.

Experimenting is fun, but this is all ive come up with that. Ive also figured out a way to throw stiff unfletched darts (really spears at this point) with better accuracy and distance by using your your index, finger beside it and a thumb to make a triangle, where the spear would sit inside of.

Nothing beats the atlatl though

Sorry way off topic Smiley got carried away heh.
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Chris
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #11 - Nov 21st, 2003 at 1:14am
 
It's interesting there is such mixed results.  What do you think was limiting the range?  Does the fletching slow the rotation speed?

Chris
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #12 - Jan 31st, 2004 at 12:16pm
 
The first throwing weapon, after the proverbial rock, is believed to be a stone with a length of cord (probably sinew) secured around it. The stone was twirled by the cord's other end and released, much like your dart design. Very effective for taking game.

The problem is, you often lose your handiwork, hence the two cord sling with pocket that released the stone, but saved the handiwork.
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lobohunter
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where be a rock and a
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Re: Slinging Arrows
Reply #13 - Aug 25th, 2004 at 11:57am
 
in a old book i read some time ago i saw a arrow sling
It consisted of a stick with a string attached to it. the string had a knot in the end that went though the arrow knotch  it was hurled very much like the atatla
i have never tried it but am heading there right now
will give report
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lobohunter
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where be a rock and a
string there be a sling

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Re: Slinging Arrows/ arrow whip
Reply #14 - Aug 25th, 2004 at 12:44pm
 
well i tried it had a blast: posted the results mostly over in primative weapons under throwing arrows It seems john is also interested in this weapon.
I used ordinary arrows alumiun shaft feild points
acheive about 60 70 yards over hand but underhand well ove a hundred yards hold the whole set up like a atalata and pitch under hand like a soft ball
i also tried side arm as thats my natual throw. that's how I hurl also.
  well this has benn great fun
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Albert Scott C bigbadwolf41 77940+hwy+99+south,+Spc+22  
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