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Distnace records? (Read 7508 times)
Jimb
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Distnace records?
Aug 11th, 2003 at 12:57am
 
Once in the past someone posted about official record of slinging in modern times that were done as some salt flat and they mentioned some fairly long distances. Does anyone have a record of that?
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Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #1 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 1:41am
 
I've not heard about that.  Although I've read accounts of slingers being able to fire upwards of 1/4 mile, my personal experiences suggest that 1000 feet would be the upper limit.

You would need a long sling with little air resistance to bring it up to speed.  The projectile would have to be very dense and aerodynamic (perhaps like the lead, American-football-shaped, roman glandes).

According the formulas on this site:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~mdgsoft/catapult/ballistics.html

The release velocity would have to be 280 mph in order for the projectile to reach a 1000 distance.  Anybody think that’s possible?


The farthest I've fired is about 400 feet.  What kind or range do you people get?
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archeorob
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 10:52am
 
Yep, around 400 ft. sounds like the limit for me too.  Of corse that goes with very little accuracy.  I have seen certain individuals hit much longer distances. Roll Eyes  But 1000 feet!?  Wow, now that's something!  Those guys have to have forearms made of steel.

Rob
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thrower1970
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #3 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 12:22pm
 
I guess a lot of it would be based on how you used the sling.  Some of the old artillery style slings (15ft long or so, with huge missiles) could probably get out past 600 feet, but it was not designed to hit anything in particular, just to aim at the crowd of oncoming warriors and take what you got as far as impact went.  I think for them, the mass was much more important, along with a good hammer throw spin (no way to spin something that big without using your whole body), and the aerodynamics of it all where more of an after thought.  Accutually, an aerodynamic missile may not have nearly the effect, in this case, that a nice jagged, rough rock would.  Just some thoughts as to use vs. range.

Ron
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Jimb
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #4 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 12:32pm
 
Someone listed a Guiness book of world records listing of a modern day slinger that achieved some spectacular distance records. I don't have a copy of it laying around. Just wondering if any of you did.
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Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #5 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 1:36pm
 
I couldn't find anything on the online version about slings.

"The effective range of slings seems to be in excess of 360 yards" is what Mr. Lloydian states on his sling page:

http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/nikolas.lloyd/weapons/sling.html

That figure is just over my suggested 1000-foot suggestion.  I have read that many ancient slingers would carry a really long sling for such a use, perhaps about 15' long.  They would have to stand on something or dig a ditch in order for the sling to be rotated underarm.  Overhead twirl wouldn't be effective because you couldn't release the rock at a 45-degree angle to achieve that range.  Overhead twirl with a 15-foot sling would limit that.

My experiences with a 9-foot sling can be found in the articles section.

More normally, I get a 300-foot range with a gold ball sized or bigger projectile.  The few times I’ve really got some good distance was with luck.  It was a nice rock that left the pouch just right.
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Yurek
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2003 at 6:56pm
 
Usually I sling for range into water. I have wondered if my best shots went over 200 m (656 feet) far. I made the first measurement of my range on last Saturday. It's very dificult to measure a distance for every stone, therefore I and my son measured the distance 200 m on the flat. My son was hiden in the safe shelter with the good view of the aim, he was observer. I shot repeatedly. Afterward he related my effects.

Some stones overdid the 200 m range. We appreciated that the best shot reached 230 m (754 feet) distance. I was very satisfied on this day. I think that I have got the better ranges sometimes before, but my opinion is subjective.

Durring try I used the different quality stones, not all of them were ideal. My sling is 117 cm (46") long, from a center of pouch to the release knot.

J think I will repeat the measurement in future but with better projectiles.

Jurek
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« Last Edit: Nov 5th, 2003 at 8:40am by Yurek »  

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #7 - Sep 1st, 2003 at 12:02am
 
754 feet!  That is an excellent range.  I don't think I've gotten much past 400 with my 3 foot sling. 

I find that rock density plays a big part in range.  I find that the different places I sling, and the different rocks all fire differently.  For a 230 meter throw at a 45 degree angle, the projectile would be in the air for about 7 seconds.*  Look on a clock and see how long that is!  That is much much longer than any bullet fired horizontally.  The air resistance on such a long flight really slows it down.  The farther you go, the increasingly harder it is to go that extra little bit.   

Chris

*range = 0.5 * (time of flight)^2 * 9.8
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2003 at 1:57pm
 
Chris, I'm absolutly sure that You are able to reach much greater ranges easy. It doesn't require a great power. The style of a throw decides about it mainly. Of course the good stones also.

I'm not sure I can explain my technique in English, but I'll try shortly. I use the right hand. My legs stay on the shot direction about. I rotate the sling easly few (1-4) times using the forearm and wirst on 6 or 7 o'clock position. My body is supported on the right leg with inclination to working arm.

I start my shot with rotation of the hips with simultaneous transfer of the body to left leg, next goes the elbow, next forearm end last the whirst litle turned to up. Somethink like a multi-part flail rotated on the vertical axle which goes forward on a trolley.

Regarding Your formula, IMHO it will give the false result because my shots are more flat than 45 degree angle, maybe about 30 degree. This formula disregards a air resistance too.

Try these 5 sets of parameters, please:

Velocity = 150 m/s
Mass = 1 kg

1) Angle = 45° without air resistance 
2)              45° with air resistance 
3)              30° without air resistance
4)              30° with air resistance
5)              25° with air resistance

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/more_stuff/Applets/ProjectileMoti...

Compare the times and ranges, please.
Anyway I will try the times measure in future and I will write about it.

Jurek




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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #9 - Sep 1st, 2003 at 3:36pm
 
I only included the formula under ideal circumstances to make it simple.  Including air resistance would make the shot even more impressive! (It would be in the air even longer).

The optimal launch angle would be around 40 degrees, accounting for air resistance.  You can also test this with that java applet you link to.  I wouldn't trust their calculations with anything less that 10kg.  They claim a 1kg projectile fired at 150m/s (or 335 mpg!!) only goes 211m (or 692 feet).  I don't believe that.   You say you can fire over 700 feet, and I don't think you're firing over 300 mph.  I think anyone would be lucky to break 200 mph....  Even the best pitchers with a sling. 


I'll haven't gone to a park and slung (?) recently.  But I don't think my range is likely to double.  I certainly don't have the arms of a pitcher (baseball, cricket, whatever).  I have weak arms...  Sad

Chris
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Yurek
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #10 - Sep 2nd, 2003 at 7:26pm
 
The interestng pictures about angle, range and wind.

...

...

...

They are from:

http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/Java/baseball.html

That simulator seems more realistic for slingers than previous one.

I'm sure that conclusions are easy.

Chris, I'm no athlete too, but 500 feet distance I reach quite easy with good stone. A physics is working for me Smiley I'm sure You can too. The method, good sling and skill are more important than a power of  muscules.

Jurek

« Edit: 2005-05-07 at 15:57 by Yurek »

Image Rescue Project: Images now hosted at Slinging.org.
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« Last Edit: May 25th, 2007 at 7:58pm by Dale »  

In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #11 - Sep 20th, 2003 at 11:34pm
 
Is it Yurek or Jurek?

Anyway, where are you from and how did you get interested in slining? That 30 degree angle seems to be the right one for distance according to those graphs.

David T
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #12 - Sep 20th, 2003 at 11:42pm
 
I would like to know how to judge the velocity.  Additionally,  what is the aerodynamic coefeicient of a sphere?  I have ballistic software, but need these two things first.
 
Jeff <>< - who likes ballistics
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So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone. (1 Samuel 17:50)
 
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Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #13 - Sep 21st, 2003 at 12:27am
 
Yurek,

Our projectiles would actually go farther because they are smaller than a baseball and considerably denser.

Although a good sling and skill help with range, it's still reliant on how fast you can accelerate it, and that is dependent on arm and upper body strength.  Stronger people fire farther... I've seen it many times because I've shown many people how to sling.  I just don't think I can accelerate the projectiles up to 120 mph like what you put into that simulator.  I don't have a throwing arm, never have.  I do have strong legs though! Tongue  Perhaps I could make a foot sling.

Jeff,

The best way to test velocity it to get a radar gun!

The second best method is to grapple with projectile motion equations:

range = 0.5 * (time of flight)^2*9.8
launch velocity = square root ( 9.8 * range )

This should give you a good idea.  Keep in mind this is without air resistance.

Chris
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Re: Distnace records?
Reply #14 - Sep 21st, 2003 at 6:38pm
 
David,

I have started my posting here:

http://www.slinging.org/forum2/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=1;action=display;num=10619485....

In this topic You can to find my short introduction and the explanation of my nick. I started my sling adventure when I was about 12 years old. I and my friend were played with sling for a few years. In this year I came back. First I made my present sling and then I found Chris' website and others with the great joy Smiley I know slinging from some movie and my father's stories.
Nowadays if I'm free I go on my bike 3-5 km to the fair places and sling... sling... until my body protests:) It's a great relax for me and source of satsfaction. Just like a sport Smiley

Chris,

You're right, a good stone throwed with the same release velocity will fly farther than a baseball. A ball shaped stone have more kinetic energy for overcoming its own drag than a baseball. Anyway I think >one person< is able to accelerate a baseball or a stone (with the same or similar weight) to the same initial velocities. I hope You know what I mean. Then if you measure the max baseball ranges (for example for about 30 deg) you may estimate (with the baseball simulator) the best initial velocity what you can reach. The assumption of windless day and the simulator is realistic, of course. It should be compared with the baseball throwers results, but I don't know the baseball Smiley

In summary, the release velocity deppends strongly on sling design, technique, skill, projectile weight and body strength, but it does't deppend significantly on density and shape of projectile.

Chris, I agree that good stones accelerated to 120mph will go much farther than 400' (than baseball), if the simulator doesn't lie Smiley

Jurek
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In the shape, structure and position of each stone, there is recorded a small piece of history. So, slinging them, we add a bit of our history to them.
 
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