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Sling braiding (Read 4506 times)
archeorob
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Sling braiding
Aug 4th, 2003 at 9:53am
 
Hi all, I just thought I would get this topic rolling.  I have just recently started braiding slings and am really enjoying it.  I've finished one with a 16 strand braid and a 32 strand lovelock style pocket.  I'm now working on a second. 

However, what I am curious about is the pattern for making more andean style pockets (ie two flat strips to cradle the projectile- ala the sling photo on the home page here).  Yes, I've looked at Sling Braiding in the Andes and ....well....I'm lazy.  I haven't sat down and worked it out of that book yet.  But in support of my laziness, does anyone have any suggestions.

Archeorob
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Bill B.
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #1 - Aug 4th, 2003 at 2:44pm
 
You braid slings, and call yourself lazy? Sheesh!  Grin

I've never seen the advantage to braiding a sling. I know it may be useful when you have weaker materials to make the sling out of, to strengthen the lines for example. Or for decoration, for sale to tourists.  Wink

Are you aware of any other reason to pursue braiding the lines? I can see netting or loose braiding for the pocket, but other than the two reasons I've already mentioned, there are so many other choices of material that braiding shouldn't be a necessity.

I'd also wonder about chafe points where the various strands cross, the centrifugal force when slinging and the release when not would seem to wear the lines down faster than if a single strand of leather (for example) were used. Thoughts?

Bill B.
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archeorob
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #2 - Aug 4th, 2003 at 3:23pm
 
I've noticed a couple of things with a braided sling.  First, it really does look pretty! Smiley

Secondly, it's bigger and weightier than my other slings.  <as a side note, my other slings consist of two peices of rope and a leather pouch>.  After having finished my first one, I headed out to the lake to put it through its runners.  After throwing for some time, I went back to the rope and leather sling and found it very light and, well...flimsy.  Don't get me wrong, it still did it's job, but I found control to be much better with the larger sling.

As for wear, I don't have a clue as to where (no pun intended  Wink) it will start to fray first.  I am anxious to find out.  I haven't used one long enough to get some heavy wear and tear. 

Anyone else have one that they've worn into the ground??
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Chris
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #3 - Aug 4th, 2003 at 3:40pm
 
The style shown in the picture of the front page is hard to achieve.  First off, you have to get the angle of the "strips" correct to fit the projectiles snuggly.  And oddly shaped projectiles could be an issue.  Although you might think the "strips" could just swing in or out to fit different curvatures, it is difficult to braid it so the cords doesn't crumple up at the join.  When this happens, you might get funky releases due to an irregular distribution of force. 

I've never done a “strip” type sling before, but my experiences with the lovelock (or split) pouch design have been less than successful because of similar issues.  I have also never put in the time to engineer a good lovelock design either.   How have other people fared with such designs?

Chris
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #4 - Aug 4th, 2003 at 3:47pm
 
Archeorob, I like heavier slings too!  Although I typically do simple leather-pouched slings, I try to get thicker leather to make up for the lack of weight in the cords.  My cords are almost always military surplus paracute cord (because of it's high tensile strength) or sometimes leather.  Both are quite light. 

Once I did braided leather cords, which felt pretty good, but was too inflexable and didn't feel right when twirling around.  I think I used too think a leather for the individual strings.  My cords were something like 1/3 of an inch in diameter!

Chris
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #5 - Aug 5th, 2003 at 4:02pm
 
Archeorob,

When you mention finding control better with the larger sling, do you mean the physical length of the doubled braided sling is longer than your other slings and that improved the control, or do you mean the weight of the overall sling improved your control?

Bill B.
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #6 - Aug 5th, 2003 at 4:03pm
 
Chris,

Did you try using mink oil on the braided leather lines? That would really soften them up and should eliminate much of the stiffiness you experienced. If you've still got that sling, you might try doing that, see if it helps enough to make that sling usable.

Bill B.
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archeorob
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #7 - Aug 5th, 2003 at 5:05pm
 
I've found that it was actually the heavier weight that gave me more control.  I haven't experimented all that much with longer slings...yet... Wink
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #8 - Aug 5th, 2003 at 5:44pm
 
Bill, I'll give that a try.  I think I know where it is. 

I’m not sure how much it will help.  The leather string was pretty tough stuff as it was, and 8 cords of it made it like a walking stick.  I’m assuming the oil penetrates the leather and makes it more flexible?


I also find that the heavier weight of the sling contributes to the more stable feel.  Perhaps the heavier cord is less sensitive to air resistance.  The added weight also gives a better indication of where the sling is in location to your hand as you can better sense the centripetal acceleration.  ???
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #9 - Aug 6th, 2003 at 3:23pm
 
I suspect that the heavier versus the lighter issue is one of personal taste.

I have no control problems with mine: two simple leather bootlaces with a leather pouch in between. That must be far lighter than Archeorob's heavier braided one and probably the ones Chris refers to when mentioning heavier ones giving more control.

I'm aware at all times where my pouch is, but that is a matter of learned experience, just as an archer knows where his nock is at all times in relation to his anchor point: experience gives you familarity with all aspects of your sling.

As to the "stiff as a walking stick" sling Chris has, that may have to be soaked in mink oil for some time to get it flexible enough. You're right, the oil will soak into the leather and make it more pliable and flexible. However, if it's that stiff, it may not help enough.

Chris, you just might have to put it up on the wall as a decoration with a tag saying something like "Petrified Sling".  8)
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #10 - Aug 6th, 2003 at 3:55pm
 
Chris, you just might have to put it up on the wall as a decoration with a tag saying something like "Petrified Sling".

LOL.   Grin

Didn't you say you wanted to intergrate a sling onto a walking stick?  Pfff.   Tongue   How about a walking stick that IS a sling!

Haha!  *childish sarcasm*
Chris
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #11 - Aug 11th, 2003 at 12:47am
 
Hi, I've been braiding slings for sale for quite a while. While it isn't necessary to braid a sling to make a useful sling, braiding does have some advantages.
First the sling cords are fairly substantial. Most of the strands I work with are about 2mm or just a bit less thick. 8 strand and 16 strand braids make a substantial cord thickness that does not tangle like some thinner less substantial cords will.
Second the connection between the sling cords and the pockets are solid, and only a cut or sustantial fracture will break that.
I haven't worked with leather since my intention was to replicate South American slings at least partially.
Disadvantages, yes there are several. First they take a while to make. Some skill and knowledge is needed to braid a sling. Not that it is that hard to acquire that information. Since a braided sling is more substantial than a tied together sling, you can't fold it into as small a package for concealment.
As for weaving the Andean style pocket you start with a 16 strand braid, add extra warps until you have 32 strands. Then take the 32 strands and seperate them into two warps of 16 strands in each bundled warp. Weave your weft over one and under the other. do this for a half inch or so.  Then seperate into four warps of 8 strands each and weave about another half inch. Now you seperate into 8 seperate warps of 4 strands each. You weave each side seperate of the other until you have about 4 to 6 inches of a flattened fabric on each side. Then you bring them together and reverse the order of bringing the warps together into one bundle of 32 strands.   Now you restart your braiding of the release cord. The one thing that is hard to describe is that the pocket starts overlaped on one side and is brought together to overlap on the other side. Even as I write this I see that it is hard to picture. I hope this helps.
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #12 - Aug 11th, 2003 at 9:35am
 
Thanks Jim,

That's exactly what I was looking for (somehow I knew you'd wander on to the forum eventually  Wink ).  As for how they overlap, I think I've got the right picture in mind.  It seems to me that "sling braiding in the Andes" has a photo of the overlapping that you've described.  With you're description, it's starting to make more sense.

Now I'm really anxious to try it!

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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #13 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 1:45am
 
Jim and archeorob, I'd love to see some close ups of your work.  Can you post some pictures up on the forum.

If you don't have access to a website to upload them, email them to me and I'll put them up here for you.
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Re: Sling braiding
Reply #14 - Aug 12th, 2003 at 1:11pm
 
There are close ups of my work on the web site http://www.pipeline.com/%7Ejburdine/index.html
The site is actually a bit dated, and I've changed computers since I put it up, so I am having trouble updating it.  I need to redo it.
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