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Message started by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 1:22pm

Title: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 1:22pm
The Crochet Squishy Bicone

Here is a way to cheaply make safe biconical ammo in under an hour for use in parks or other public places, providing a good alternative to the ubiquitous tennis ball.  And it feels sort of like a water balloon! :D

The ammo is approximately 2 inches in diameter and 4.5 inches long and weighs approximately 60 grams.  It is crocheted with medium weight acrylic bright yellow and blue "red heart super saver yarn" using an F hook, filled with poly-fil fiber that has been rubbed in 30mL of a 50/50 mixture of vaseline/coconut oil, and finished by rubbing the exterior with another 30mL. 

*Exterior wax is not necessary.  *Wax amount can vary to achieve desired weight.  *Other colors and waxes can be substituted.  *For extra durability, medium weight "Lily Sugar'n Cream" cotton yarn can also be substituted.

Crochet Pattern:

Begin with yellow yarn.
Form a magic circle.
Sc 6 times into the magic circle.
Tighten the magic circle closed and begin working in spiral rounds, using invisible (single crochet) increases and decreases where noted:

Rnd 1:  (inc, sc)x3   [9]
Rnd 2:  (inc, sc, sc)x3   [12]
Rnd 3:  (inc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [15]
Rnd 4:  (inc, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [18]
Rnd 5:  (inc, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [21]
Rnd 6:  (inc, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [24]
Rnd 7-9: sc into every st   [24]
Change color to blue.
Rnd 10-12:  sc into every st   [24]
Rnd 13:  (dec, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [21]
Rnd 14:  (dec, sc, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [18]
Rnd 15:  (dec, sc, sc, sc, sc)x3   [15]
Stuff the ammo with oiled or waxed polyfill.  Do not overstuff.
Rnd 16:  (dec, sc, sc, sc)x3   [12]
Rnd 17:  (dec, sc, sc)x3   [9]
Rnd 18:  (dec, sc)x3   [6]
Rnd 19:  sl st into next st, finish off, weave tail through next 6 st, and pull tight to close the end shut.

Weave in starting and ending tails.
Rub the exterior with oil or wax if desired.  If using the  aforementioned wax formula, allow the surface of the ammo to cure for awhile, letting it wick inwards and become drier.

Woohoo!

I should be able to test this ammo soon.  :D   The stuffing needs to be firm enough to release ok.  I'll post an update if the ammo needs more stuffing or needs to be slightly overstuffed.  ;)  Let me know if you have any ideas or concerns.
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Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Kick on May 22nd, 2020 at 2:14pm
Awesome! I might try and make nålbinding ammo :D

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 2:33pm
Wow that'll be really neat Kick!

I only recently heard of nalbinding, in one of your posts in fact.   :D

Let us know how it turns out  ;)

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Jaegoor on May 22nd, 2020 at 3:13pm
Ist das nicht etwas zu aufwendig?

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Morphy on May 22nd, 2020 at 3:48pm
I’m always amazed when I see people with other skills do things I’ve never considered. This is awesome. I would love to make some do use around the house.

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 4:49pm
:D Thanks Morphy.  Yeah i plan to sling these in my garage.  I have a backyard at hand too.  I wish I could go to the parks more often. ::)

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by NooneOfConsequence on May 22nd, 2020 at 5:05pm
Nice work StarLight!  I’m amazed that you can do that in under an hour!  I don’t have any experience with this type of thing... will the vaseline/oil mixture pick up a lot of dirt? And will it leave a residue when it hits something?

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Mersa on May 22nd, 2020 at 7:01pm
Nice work , great to see some new “safe” ammo

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 7:46pm
Thanks!

This oil mixture is on the thin side.  Maybe thats why it feels sorta like a water balloon  :D  I use it on my hands for crocheting, and it's perfect for that. I don't have any other kind of wax right now.  And since I coated the exterior, it will leave a residue and pick up dirt.  This was a sort of quick and dirty ammo idea that I got excited to try  ;D

There's alot of experimentation that could be done with this concept (yarn and filler material). If I take my time and overstuff it, I could probably get a good weight without wax, so it could be machine washable.  I'll try that as well as another design mixing polyfiber and polypellets as the filler, and nylon as the yarn :D  And I'm going to keep thinking of different possibilities. Let me know if you think of something  ;)

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 22nd, 2020 at 9:49pm
OMG i bet this would be fun for slingwars!!!

Nkay, who wants to enlist?  ;D

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by IronGoober on May 23rd, 2020 at 12:25am
If we could all gather enough slingers in the same area, I bet some folks would be willing. I would!

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Shakli on May 23rd, 2020 at 4:02am
Could you please make a video clip of that? 

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Kick on May 23rd, 2020 at 4:32am
I absolutely want to take part in a sling war! I'll bring a staff sling  ;D

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Caldou on May 23rd, 2020 at 4:01pm

Kick wrote on May 22nd, 2020 at 2:14pm:
Awesome! I might try and make nålbinding ammo :D


I guess I won't need to remind you not to use the same number of stitches, since ours are longer and less wide ? ;)

Concerning nålbinding, what I did is rusty ball covers, to mitigate the impact ^^

But I didn't think of filling them with crochet stuffing !

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 24th, 2020 at 6:00am
The Crochet Rigid Bicone

Here is a variant that is a little larger and much more solid in its construction, closely resembling the characteristics of a tennis ball.  It is crocheted using two yarns at once with an extremely undersized hook (the same F hook).  This creates a dense,  durable, and rigid outer-shell (about 1/4 inch thick) for the projectile.  The ammo is then overstuffed with polyfiber and the central axis of revolution is filled with 60 mL of polypellets.  The ammo is approximately 2.75 inches in diameter and 6 inches long and weighs approximately 60 grams. 

I consider this an advanced crochet project, because it is just barely possible to crochet a fabric this dense, requiring alot of strength, attention to gauge, and time (~8 hrs).  Muscle strain and fatigue can be avoided by using leveraging and adapting better techniques.  The filling method is also advanced, but adequately explained in the pattern.  I have also updated the placement of the increases and decreases so that a perfect circle is formed.  Most experienced crocheters do this automatically if it is not written into the pattern.

Crochet Pattern:

Begin with two yarns, using both ends of the same yarn ball.  This is medium weight bright yellow acrylic "red heart super saver" yarn.
Form a magic circle.
Sc 6 times into the magic circle.
Tighten the magic circle closed and begin working in spiral rounds, using invisible (single crochet) increases and decreases where noted:

Rnd 1:  (inc, sc)x3   [9]
Rnd 2:  (inc, (sc)x2)x3   [12]
Rnd 3:  (inc, (sc)x3)x3   [15]
Rnd 4:  (sc)x2, (inc, (sc)x4)x2, inc, (sc)x2   [18]
Rnd 5:  (inc, (sc)x5)x3   [21]
Rnd 6:  (sc)x3, (inc, (sc)x6)x2, inc, (sc)x3   [24]
Rnd 7:  (inc, (sc)x7)x3   [27]
Rnd 8:  (sc)x4, (inc, (sc)x8)x2, inc, (sc)x4   [30]
Rnd 9-16:  sc into every st   [30]
Rnd 17:  (sc)x4, (dec, (sc)x8)x2, dec, (sc)x4   [27]
Rnd 18:  (dec, (sc)x7)x3   [24]
Rnd 19:  (sc)x3, (dec, (sc)x6)x2, dec, (sc)x3   [21]
Working with tufts of polyfiber, roll it in the palm of the hands to create little balls about an inch in diameter.  Overstuff the ammo with these polyfiber balls, using a 3/8 inch dowel rod to tamp them down and twist them into the accumulating mass.  (For tamping, use an end of the rod that has been sanded smooth.  This allows you to tamp along the inside surface of the shell without pulling out its fibers.  But for twisting, use an end of the rod that is not smooth and still has saw marks, taking care not to touch the shell.  This rough end will grab the polyfibers better for twisting).  Once finished filling the ammo with polyfiber, use this same rod and create a space down along the axis of revolution (not quite reaching the tip) and fill the first half of the bicone with 30 mL of polypellets.  See attachment 1.
Rnd 20:  (dec, (sc)x5)x3   [18]
Rnd 21:  (sc)x2, (dec, (sc)x4)x2, dec, (sc)x2   [15]
Insert the rod along the central axis and continue overstuffing the ammo with polyfiber.  Then remove the rod and fill the second half of the bicone with 15mL of polypellets.  Then insert the rod back into the central axis and begin crocheting again.  See attachement 2.
Rnd 22:  (dec, (sc)x3)x3   [12]
Continue overstuffing the ammo with polyfiber.  Remove the rod and fill the second half of the bicone with another 15 mL of polypellets.  See attachment 3.  Then plug the central axis cavity with balls of polyfiber.
Rnd 23:  (dec, (sc)x2)x3   [9]
Continue overstuffing the ammo with polyfiber.  But don't overstuff it too much.  We want the final tip to deform well just like the first tip.
Rnd 24:  sl st into next st and finish off.  Weave the tail through the next 9 st, tightening the gap closed as you go.  But don't weave over the top of the stitches while doing this, only through the sides.  If a small gap still remains after doing this, close the gap by connecting opposite stitches together across the gap.  It should only take one connection to do this.  Then weave the remaining tail across the body of the projectile.

Woohoo!

I love this projectile.   :D  The yarn feels and looks like the exact same fiber used on the surface of a tennis ball (that same yellow fuzzy sparkleness).  And the rigidity and diameter of the shell feels like a tennis ball too.  And it feels and sounds just like a tennis ball when catching it (that same rigidity accompanied by that muffled hollow sound).  The body of the projectile doesn't bounce much, but the tip bounces a bit.  It spins superbly in the air.  And because most of the mass resides along the axis of revolution, it has a small moment of inertia.  So it will be responsive, quickly rolling out of the sling upon release and reaching higher spin velocities.  :o  I think anyways haha.  I can't wait to sling it soon.

It makes me want to create some exciting slinging game revolving around it ;D

I think this ammo is pretty safe.  I wouldn't want to get hit in the neck or eye or anything  ;D  But I've thrown this really hard at myself and the tip doesn't hurt, it acts like a spring.  The tip that was crocheted first deforms well. But the tip that was crocheted last has a hard knot where I finished it off, and overall seems more hard and pointed.  I'll redesign it and update the pattern.  The pattern has been redesigned and updated, along with the picture.  Both tips have the same radius of curvature and deform equally well.   :)
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Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Morphy on May 24th, 2020 at 2:45pm
Crochet Mortars! Many a Sock Puppet died in the Crochet Wars of 2020...

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 24th, 2020 at 2:55pm
Haha.  The texture does look like a grenade. I never thought crochet could be sooo OP. it definitely needs to be nerfed in the next patch.  ;D

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by vetryan15 on May 24th, 2020 at 3:08pm
I can see that being ammo standard for FUNDABALL

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 25th, 2020 at 1:56am
Hi vetryan!

Wow I've been reading about FUNDABALL and it sounds really fun!  I've also read the fundaball ammo thread and understand the sport may be having a hard time finding the perfect ammo.

Basically, fundaball needs a single ball that excels in short and long range missile attacks.  Bicones excel over spheres for long range due to less drag and spin stabilization.  But it also needs a ball rigid enough to survive launching for stable flight and soft enough not to injure other players upon impact.  Spheres excel over bicones in this matter, due to its inherent structural strength and the safety of its larger radius of curvature.

That would be really awesome if the current iteration of the Crochet Rigid Bicone overcomes these challenges!  It needs to be tested.  But if it doesn't, I can see lots of ways that the ammo can be refined even more  :)


For instance, suppose upon testing you find that the ammo hurts too much upon impact when travelling really fast.  I could easily increase the radius of curvature at the tips, making it more egg shaped. We could then retest.  This would be the easiest fix.

But there is another solution.  I could design each section of the bicone for its essential task.   The tips don't need alot of of strength, since its smaller radius of curvature inherently gives it more strength and it's not under any loads in the pouch.  I could drop a yarn while crocheting the tips and create a separate internal chamber specifically designed for shock absorption.  Thus, I could make the tips a Crochet Squishy Bicone, while making the main body a Crochet Rigid Bicone.  I can see alot of different permutations using different combinations of construction.

Or say, for example, you find that the main body of the current iteration is not rigid enough for power throws, which deform the body and cause wobbly flights.  I could beef up the main body with a harder filler or embroider additional yarn onto the surface.

Anyways, this is all very fun to think about  :P  I like making ammo as much as I enjoy making slings.

I also thought about something really crazy:  Tear-drop shaped ammo, a cone sitting on a sphere.  Could this fly point first or sphere first depending upon how its constructed and/or loaded in the pouch?

I was also daydreaming about games earlier and that was fun too.  :D I want to make a thread of all the fun games I can think of.  I thought of one earlier that made me laugh.  Okay say there is a group that has alot of people who don't know how to sling.  They could be the zombies that chaotically try to reach a fort defended by slingers.  Some could be hungry berserkers and others like slow moving slugs haha.  If they get hit they have to act like they die and lie on the ground dead until the game is over.  Maybe they could wiggle around a little, moan, and crawl toward the fort for drama.  2 shots would permanently kill them.  ;D   When they are far away, the shot would be considered mortar--if the ball lands within 10ft of them it explodes and they fall down.  If they are close, the shots must hit them.  If ANY zombie reaches the fort, the zombie team wins.  If ALL the zombies are killed, the slingers win. After the game is over, the slingers can teach the zombies how to sling.  OMG that sounds like sooo much fun.

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 25th, 2020 at 9:56am
I've been thinking more about the spherical-cone (tear-drop) ammo.

A spherical cone might naturally excel for contact slinging sports if it would fly sphere first.  It would hit with the blunt force of a sphere, while possessing the improved flight of a bicone.  It would represent a best of both worlds, so to speak.  Such a ball would be much easier to construct compared to the things I was thinking about earlier to make the bicone better.

I'm going to start experimenting with this idea.  So I really need to finish my sling so I can test it haha.  So I'm going to work hard on the belly of my sling today  ;)  But I want to crochet a rigid spherical-cone with overall dimensions similar to my last ball. 

woohooo!

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Tejo on May 25th, 2020 at 12:42pm
This crocheted ammunition looks so lovely that I wouldn't mind getting struck by one  ;D 
Good work, I would like to have one to sling inside the house.

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Morphy on May 26th, 2020 at 6:16pm

StarLight wrote on May 24th, 2020 at 2:55pm:
Haha.  The texture does look like a grenade. I never thought crochet could be sooo OP. it definitely needs to be nerfed in the next patch.  ;D


Lol! Well if it makes you feel any better as an almost 40, past my prime guy I feel the same way about Henry Cavill.



“Wow. Someone won the genetic lottery... Wait...he’s rich too? And hes famous??! Son of a... next youre gonna tell me he has a British accent? Wait.. WTF?! Devs cmon your killin me here, nerf him already!”

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by IronGoober on May 26th, 2020 at 10:50pm

StarLight wrote on May 25th, 2020 at 1:56am:
But there is another solution.  I could design each section of the bicone for its essential task.   The tips don't need alot of of strength, since its smaller radius of curvature inherently gives it more strength and it's not under any loads in the pouch.  I could drop a yarn while crocheting the tips and create a separate internal chamber specifically designed for shock absorption.  Thus, I could make the tips a Crochet Squishy Bicone, while making the main body a Crochet Rigid Bicone.  I can see alot of different permutations using different combinations of construction.



In my experience, teardrop shaped stones tend not to fly as well as football shaped stones. There is something about the wobble during release, because they don't sit symmetrically in the pouch.  I actually think your original design would be the best. Although the oil might end up splatting out on people's clothes. ;D

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by Curious Aardvark on May 27th, 2020 at 7:57am
you either have very small hands or those are huge !

Very clever idea :thumb:

'nerf him' ?

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 27th, 2020 at 10:05am
Thanks Tejo and Curios Aardvark!

Haha. Morphy, that's so funny what you said about Cavill.

Yeah, I've been thinking alot about that same thing, Irongoober.  A long time ago, I slung some small clay tear-drops.  I think the cone length to spherical diameter ratio (lets call this cone-sphere ratio) was 1:1 or less.  They slung really well POINT FIRST to my astonishment haha.  If I loaded them sphere first in the pouch, they would flip in the first 20 feet of flight, preferring point first.

I'm thinking most glandes may have problems because the density is homogeneous throughout the material.  Thus, the center of mass is not optimized for flight.  The assymetrical gland picks up a wobble rolling down the pouch.  Once airborne, if the surface area in front of the center of mass (let's call that Front Surface Area) is too similar to the surface area behind the center of mass (let's call that Back Surface Area), then drag cannot stabilize the projectile. It kinda see-saws.  The see-saw effect is due to the shape of the tear-drop.  At first, when the projectile moves away from the center-line of forward direction, the destabilizing force of the Front Surface Area is large, and the stabilizing force of Back Surface Area is small.  But as it continues, the Back Surface Area gives drag an increasing rate of stabilizing force, while the Front Surface Area gives a decreasing rate of destabilizing force.    So eventually, the Back Surface Area exposed to a corrective drag force becomes greater than the Front Surface area exposed to a destablizing force, and the projectile starts moving back to center-line. But upon reaching centerline, it continues past and the problem repeats.  Its a whole lot more complex than this, I imagine, especially since its spinning and there's all sorts of other stuff going on too I bet. 

On the other hand, if the Back Surface Area is much less than the Front Surface Area, then the projectile may flip and stabilize, which is what I observed along time ago.

What I'm working on is a multi-chambered teardrop projectile.  This will allow me to customize the density profile and shift the center of mass forward, decreasing the Front Surface Area so that the projectile stabilizes upon release.  I have a few different ideas to try in this regards.  I don't have alot of materials here to work with.  So some of the designs may be a bit weird, but ooooooh well. haha. But hopefully, one of these ideas will produce a stable teardrop with a cone-sphere ratio of 1.5 because I think that would be a really great size for a tennis ball sized ammo (2.75" wide by 4" long tip-to-tip). But I'd be ok with 5" long i guess. :)

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 27th, 2020 at 11:54am
Oh yeah, and although I'm playing with the center of mass and moving it forwards, I'm going to tether it to the back tip and sides of the ball so that upon impact, these surfaces will compress the filler for shock absorption, taking away some of the impact that would of been felt at the front.  The ball will act like its being hit from all sides at once to some degree.  I hope it all works out  :D  I'll show you soon  ;)

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by IronGoober on May 27th, 2020 at 8:37pm
Sounds awesome. You're going to need to charge people $20 a pop for your highly engineered custom ammo! or get several traded slings out of the deal.

Title: Re: Crochet Biconical Ammo
Post by StarLight on May 28th, 2020 at 4:28am
Uhh this is all starting to make my head hurt haha.  I'm going to do something else for awhile.   ;D

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