I have purchased a bunch of different cords and rope with the purpose of experimenting and observing (possibly quantifying) the difference between these when braided as fibre or otherwise, with and without water soaking. Given the amount of slings I've made, mostly of the same sisal cord and hardware store jute, this is something I should have done quite a while ago. I mean, I've nearly done through 1.5km of sisal at this point in two 750m massive balls. The sisal is good stuff but needs a lot of hassle to maximise it's quality, jute I've always liked working with, but the durability does not impress me.

So, I've purchased-
-Linen cord 1.5mm (40m) I've actually used this before once, its very soft and lovely. I've nearly finished a rockman with this which I'll post when I'm done.
-Sisal rope 6mm (1m) Because generating fibre bundles from cord is time consuming, fiddly and requires a lot of pruning for high quality. I want to try rope.
-Hemp rope 6mm (20m) This is actually the first time I've worked with hemp, despite it's popularity and good rep on here. It's a massive pain to find here for some reason, it seems 99% of ebay and amazon listings are jute falsely advertised as hemp.
-Manila/abaca rope ~15mm (1m) Never seen or used this before, it's very tough stuff, makes sisal even seem a bit soft...
-I've also got some Hempex on the way which is synthetic hemp rope, hopefully it has the feel of natural cord but can withstand whipcracks. It's made from polypropylene.
-Not a natural cord for sure but I also bought some kevlar for whip crack reinforcement which I'm integrating into a few slings  8-) My only concern so far is that it is quite slippery which might be where the hempex comes in.

Observations after soaking and initial work:
-Linen is so great to work with, I'm using fibre but it hasn't been soaked (95% sure it's all natural anyway). It's so damn soft it's hard to believe it's durable. It even smells lovely!
-Getting smooth lovely sisal fibre from the rope is a lot easier than the cord I've been using, this is definitely a new standard for me providing the fibre is equally good.
-Manila feels tough as nails by default, but after a soak it separates so easily into flexible thick fibres, I'm very optimistic about this stuff for sling braiding. It's super fast to produce fibres and they look real good stuff.
-The hemp and linen don't take as well to water, I'm pretty sure both are all natural in any case but they don't so much split into fibres as fibre bundles. The hemp smells pretty crappy but I think that's normal.

All in all I can't wait to get some braided samples made up and compared. The best cord I make currently is sisal fibre soaked/pruned, dried totally, braided, soaked again then dried... this takes a while.

The process I think I'll follow is non-soaked fibre vs soaked fibre braids, then I can soak each of the completed braids after to see if it makes a difference (probably soak just half for comparison sake). I'll then report on how flexible the resultant braids are and try to have a guess at wear resistance  :D
Here are some pictures of the first steps:

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Awesome! Can't wait to see what you come up with.

I've never worked with manilla, I wonder how it compares to sisal.
Interesting post.

I'm also looking forward to seeing your results.

This makes me think of the sling I'm currently working on.  I have some new types of cordage and rather than making individual slings with them, I'm working on a sling made from four different fibers.  It's a braid of hemp, linen, nettle, and tussah silk.  I've used linen and hemp many times, but the nettle and silk are new for me.

Obviously a sling made from all of these won't show me how they behave individually, but it's more of test run just to see what it's like to braid with them.  I think it also looks cool.  Slings made from these fibers individually will come later.  The sling isn't done, but here's some early images.

http://beehatmead.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/4FiberSling-InProgress.jpg

http://beehatmead.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/4FiberSling-Fibers.jpg

   Many of my slings and leashes are made of several materials.  Often you get the best of different worlds that way. Jute, hemp, cotton, nylon, yarn, polypropylene, lace,  etc..  This is something I've done from the beginning. 

@Rat Man - Do you have any favorite combinations?

My whipping is almost always jute. Cotton works well also. Jute and hemp make very pliable cords with just the right amount of softness and give.  Polypropylene and cotton can work well together. The polypropylene gives you strength and the cotton gives flex.  There  are a lot of variables involved that make picking the ideal combination difficult.  Quality, weave, thickness, etc.. It's fun to experiment. I rarely make a sling from just one material.

Manila shrinks when it gets wet

The sisal rope is a good idea. All of my experience with the hardware store sisal twine  tells me I don’t have the patience to make sisal slings from it. If that makes it easier than I may have to try it again.

Flax is a wonderful fiber, too bad the highest quality linen cord is so expensive.

When it comes to performance synthetics are hard to beat but there is still th environmental reason to go natural

For me, the aesthetic reason is the main reason I like natural materials. I have and use both and I think they can be on par with synthetic if used correctly (might need some extra protection here and there), but really, I just prefer the look of a "natural" sling.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 8:45am:

I've stopped making slings of natural fibre. Never had any of them perform better than thin paracord slings. Eventually I purchased a Balearic sling of Luis Pons Livermore because I thought I was doing something wrong. Truth be told, while it is a fantastic work of art, it felt like one of the most sluggish slings I ever used. It feels like I get the same amount of power out of a thin paracord sling with much less effort going into the throw. Even after getting used to it, once I swap back to the thin paracord sling, it feels amazing how much easier it is to get power. But this is my own personal experience. It might be different for others. So when it comes to performance I no longer feel any reason to go natural fiber. There is still the aesthetic reason. But it's not high on my list. The only reason these days I would use natural fibre is if I had no alternative.

Synthetics will always win if you prioritise throwing efficiency, it's a simple fact they can be stronger per cross sectional size and therefore can be made thinner and lighter than natural slings which directly reduces the energy wasted in the throw.

Some reasons I and many others prefer braided slings are probably similar reasons why you don't replace your paracord with 0.8mm dyneema line in all your slings. The overall feel, tangle resistance+easier loading, opening up many different pouch designs etc. Additionally, I feel an underappreciated advantage of thicker braided slings is that they are less liable to pouch roll and dumping larger ammo which I've found to happen a bit in paracord slings. Particularly if said large stones are also smooth and slippery. This is a direct result of paracord being very flexible and I've managed to somewhat subdue effects with more stable cord connection methods.

And of course, aesthetics but more so ergonomics can be very important.

I've heard claims that a well made braided sling can release cleaner and potentially more accurately than basic paracord, though both types of slings can achieve almost perfect releases in my experience. Paracord is so light and flexible it's unlikely to cause any poor effect on the projectile whilst braided tapered slings can snap open under their own weight.

Thanks for the replies so far-

I've finished my linen rockman and will post pics when I get a chance. Also currently working on a manila balearic sling which is working out pretty nice. I was originally going to do cord samples but... I just ended up doing the whole sling in this case. I will post more information and pictures when I get time to do it properly.

Paracord's core is nylon which is stretchy. Nylon is the best substitute for sinew and is what is used in torsion engines today. Torsion engines can't work with rope which isn't elastic, like hemp linen etc
When slinging with single paracords energy is lost because of the elasticity. It feels smooth on release because if you jerk at the release the stretchiness absorbs it and creates a smooth feeling . I would like to test difference in range on a trebuchet where there is no human error.

For range slinging uhmwpe is the king of all fibers . linen and hemp are the king and queen of the natural fibers.

what I consider a big advantage of natural fibers is that they are not bad for the environment .

I recently bought paracord and have made a sling but w/ quarantine it's difficult to test it.( haven't used paracord but I have used nylon cords and monofilament fishing line before )

Sarosh wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 1:09pm:

Paracord's core is nylon which is stretchy. Nylon is the best substitute for sinew and is what is used in torsion engines today. Torsion engines can't work with rope which isn't elastic, like hemp linen etc When slinging with single paracords energy is lost because of the elasticity. It feels smooth on release because if you jerk at the release the stretchiness absorbs it and creates a smooth feeling . I would like to test difference in range on a trebuchet where there is no human error. For range slinging uhmwpe is the king of all fibers . linen and hemp are the king and queen of the natural fibers. what I consider a big advantage of natural fibers is that they are not bad for the environment . I recently bought paracord and have made a sling but w/ quarantine it's difficult to test it.( haven't used paracord but I have used nylon cords and monofilament fishing line before )

You'd have to braid extremely tight not to get any elasticity in natural braided cords, though

   I have many slings made of paracord, regular nylon, polypropylene, etc...  I like synthetic slings a lot.Though synthetics will outlast slings made of natural fibers, there is something about the feel of a jute sling.  I'll always have and use them.

I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but it’s rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. I’ve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose it’s possible.

@Jauke - You bring up a good point and it’s something I’ve thought about a lot in weapon design. Anytime a person is getting into making weapons there’s always two paths to take- Efficacy or Aesthetics. Part of the fun of designing these primitive weapons is trying to make both of those a reality in the same weapon.

I’m like you, I look at the Balearic slings and marvel at their beauty but I just can’t get into them. Too bulky for me. Paracord or some natural equivalent all the way.

Personally I've not experienced any significant stretch from paracord (maybe a little bit that sneaks in during peak forces). It does seem pretty stretch free at slinging force levels though.

I've used other nylon (masons line) which was genuinely stretchy so it has the potential. I think these things come down to construction of the particular cord in many cases.

In terms of natural material thinner cords especially may experience a small degree of stretch, but usually most materials feel inelastic. Water treating or loose braiding can increase flexibility but bring a degree of stretchiness. I always aim for a moderately flexible cord which has as little stretch as possible and solid abrasion resistance with no 'springyness'. That's how I arrived at twice soaked sisal fibre as my currently preferred material.

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172017416/5700#5705

Here is the current progress on the abaca sling and the linen rockman. I decided not to post here and keep this as more of a discussion of the cord properties themselves.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 3:30pm:

You'd have to braid extremely tight not to get any elasticity in natural braided cords, though

elasticity is a physical property of the fiber , plant fibers generally are not elastic, animal fibers generally are , synthetic fibers can be both. I am not talking about braid tightness


Morphy wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 4:45pm:

I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but it’s rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. I’ve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose it’s possible.

I believe there will be, it's rated 550lbs but it gets minimum elongation 30% , 10% elongation is enough to ruin the throw. compared to linen and UHMWPE which get ~3.5% at break

we can do a static experiment where we hang from the sling 10-20 kg and measure elongation but unless the result is a  big elongation we cannot know the result in slinging. Or we can do a dynamic experiment and use two materials linen vs paracord or dyneema vs paracord on a trebuchet and compare ranges while making sure there is no change in the release angle.

I bought paracord from ebay and also had a friend bring me some from the army , at first glance there is no difference but there is clear difference in the core yarns, army's look A+ quality.

I like pcord. I use it on seat belt slings. I like to braid hemp, jute and yucca. None of these noticeably stretch when I am slinging. Wool does unless it is plaited over another fiber.

Sarosh wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 6:21pm:

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 3:30pm: You'd have to braid extremely tight not to get any elasticity in natural braided cords, though elasticity is a physical property of the fiber , plant fibers generally are not elastic, animal fibers generally are , synthetic fibers can be both. I am not talking about braid tightness Morphy wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 4:45pm: I use to be worried about paracord stretching, but it’s rated at 550lbs so the force exerted on those two cords during the throw is very small and the stretch probably is as well. I’ve never noticed stretch on my paracord slings but I suppose it’s possible. I believe there will be, it's rated 550lbs but it gets minimum elongation 30% , 10% elongation is enough to ruin the throw. compared to linen and UHMWPE which get ~3.5% at break we can do a static experiment where we hang from the sling 10-20 kg and measure elongation but unless the result is a  big elongation we cannot know the result in slinging. Or we can do a dynamic experiment and use two materials linen vs paracord or dyneema vs paracord on a trebuchet and compare ranges while making sure there is no change in the release angle. I bought paracord from ebay and also had a friend bring me some from the army , at first glance there is no difference but there is clear difference in the core yarns, army's look A+ quality.

Oh for sure, there’s a big difference between the cheap stuff and the really high quality paracord.

Manila sling is complete. Pic below.

I'm a big fan of this material so far. It's got a stiffness and feel similar to pre-soak sisal. It's fairly decent to braid with, the rope splits easily into fibres, though if you cut into longer fibres (~60cm) then these wont so easily split from bundles which can cause a bit of mess. The fibres themselves are pretty thick and very strong. I actually cut my hand trying to break one, so yeah, don't try that.

In total I used around 80% of 1m of 16mm diameter manila rope, so I got the perfect amount really... This cost about £2, so not a crazy expensive material. I've actually got 4m of 25mm rope on the way (about 10x as much material wise) for only ~£13 so (not planning to be bored during isolation!).

Sling observations:
-It is perhaps slightly rougher than sisal and I think long term use would mandate some sort of protection for the index finger (quick wrap of e-tape would do the job). It's possible that a post-braid soak will soften this up a bit.

-It's got a touch of elasticity to it, though it's not really noticeable unless you really try stretch it. It's nothing close to cotton for example. However, this might make it not particularly suited to thinner braided slings where the stretch could become more significant.

-It feels surprisingly light and quite fast to throw. This is a slightly lighter build than I've used for balearic slings in the past, though I'm sure the material is contributing most of this.

-I've tried a sample which was soaked post braiding, it seems to increase flexibility a fair amount and softens the braid a little, though it did increase the stretch factor. This sample was not dried under tension, so hopefully the increase in stretch can be avoided by using this. I will probably soak this sling partly as experiment, though its perfectly fine now if you like stiffer slings.

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Nice! I think that sling will get more flexible through use ;)

Wool, synthetic yarn, and leather lace have way too much stretch to them, though they're OK in combination with other materials.  I haven't noticed significant stretch in other materials I've used. 

Not to necro this thread but I've now made three manila fibre slings and can opine a bit on what it is like to work with. Others that also have, please chip in. Note the reasoning here applies to fibre braiding only. Here are my findings:

-The material is closely comparable with sisal, the fibres are thicker and the colour is different but the overall feel is pretty much the same. So I will mainly talk about this material in comparison with sisal.

-Perhaps relevant to some of the recent forum discussions- I've found manila slings to be stiffer than their sisal counterparts. This holds true whether you carry out a soaking/dry under tension process on the completed sling or not. To clarify, the soaking process significantly loosens up the feel of both materials, however comparing like for like treatment, manila braids have been stiffer than sisal braids in both cases. I would recommend soaking treatment for some types of slings or if you prefer more pliable cords. I now believe not soaking is best for balearic slings.

-Stretch seems to be pretty much negligible for both materials, even after soaking treatment. Though you must dry under tension or you will get a springy/stretchy sling. Stretch will likely become a factor if moving to thin braided slings which I may experiment with at some point.

-Weight wise- I was mistaken earlier with the apparent light feeling balearic sling. The lightness was due to my construction rather than material. It is about the same is sisal.

-I've heard from someone else on here (I think it was Albion Slinger) that he found manila tassels to have poor lifetime in a cracking sling. I can't comment on this as I have spliced either kevlar or dyneema into the end of each of the ones I have made. I would honestly be surprised if it is that bad, since manila feels really tough, perhaps fibre quality varies by supplier- I certainly know that is true for sisal. Going from what information I can find manila is slightly stronger and slightly more abrasion resistant than sisal.

-Manila is slightly rougher to handle than sisal and will cause more abrasion on your hands during use. Though it is perhaps more secure to grip and a secure grip can be maintained on thinner cords.

Overall sisal and manila feel very similar to me, I don't think the choice will make or break your sling unless you are really trying to refine the design. They cost about the same too, though sisal seems much more common.

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 18^th, 2020 at 8:45am:

I've stopped making slings of natural fibre. Never had any of them perform better than thin paracord slings. Eventually I purchased a Balearic sling of Luis Pons Livermore because I thought I was doing something wrong. Truth be told, while it is a fantastic work of art, it felt like one of the most sluggish slings I ever used. It feels like I get the same amount of power out of a thin paracord sling with much less effort going into the throw. Even after getting used to it, once I swap back to the thin paracord sling, it feels amazing how much easier it is to get power. But this is my own personal experience. It might be different for others. So when it comes to performance I no longer feel any reason to go natural fiber. There is still the aesthetic reason. But it's not high on my list. The only reason these days I would use natural fibre is if I had no alternative.

Hilariously, I have reached the opposite conclusion. Thick slings braided with natural fibers seem to do some of the work for me thus making each shot easier. I guess it all depends on personal preference.

JudoP wrote on Jan 27^th, 2021 at 12:53pm:

I've heard from someone else on here (I think it was Albion Slinger) that he found manila tassels to have poor lifetime in a cracking sling. I can't comment on this as I have spliced either kevlar or dyneema into the end of each of the ones I have made. I would honestly be surprised if it is that bad, since manila feels really tough, perhaps fibre quality varies by supplier- I certainly know that is true for sisal. Going from what information I can find manila is slightly stronger and slightly more abrasion resistant than sisal.

That's right. I have bought manila from two different places and made a few slings from the fibre, but the ends of all of them deteriorated very quickly. While the fibre is very strong and good against abrasion, I think the fibre is also brittle (synthetic or replaceable cracker recommended) . One more thing is that manila fibres seem to be less consistent compared to sisal/pita i.e. each sisal fibre is similar in look, thickness and strength, where as manila fibres vary a lot (will probably depend of grade of fibre too).
I much prefer braiding sisal (preferably pita) because of this.

SerKraus wrote on Jan 27^th, 2021 at 9:06pm:

AncientCraftwork wrote on Mar 18th, 2020 at 8:45am: I've stopped making slings of natural fibre. Never had any of them perform better than thin paracord slings. Eventually I purchased a Balearic sling of Luis Pons Livermore because I thought I was doing something wrong. Truth be told, while it is a fantastic work of art, it felt like one of the most sluggish slings I ever used. It feels like I get the same amount of power out of a thin paracord sling with much less effort going into the throw. Even after getting used to it, once I swap back to the thin paracord sling, it feels amazing how much easier it is to get power. But this is my own personal experience. It might be different for others. So when it comes to performance I no longer feel any reason to go natural fiber. There is still the aesthetic reason. But it's not high on my list. The only reason these days I would use natural fibre is if I had no alternative. Hilariously, I have reached the opposite conclusion. Thick slings braided with natural fibers seem to do some of the work for me thus making each shot easier. I guess it all depends on personal preference.

What throwing style are you using?

Archaic Arms wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 1:09pm:

That's right. I have bought manila from two different places and made a few slings from the fibre, but the ends of all of them deteriorated very quickly. While the fibre is very strong and good against abrasion, I think the fibre is also brittle (synthetic or replaceable cracker recommended) . One more thing is that manila fibres seem to be less consistent compared to sisal/pita i.e. each sisal fibre is similar in look, thickness and strength, where as manila fibres vary a lot (will probably depend of grade of fibre too). I much prefer braiding sisal (preferably pita) because of this.

I see, thankyou for your input. It seems like you tested it quite thoroughly.


SerKraus wrote on Jan 27^th, 2021 at 9:06pm:

Hilariously, I have reached the opposite conclusion. Thick slings braided with natural fibers seem to do some of the work for me thus making each shot easier. I guess it all depends on personal preference.

I think Jauke has since changed his position. He now favours balearic style slings.

Morphy wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 3:28pm:

What throwing style are you using?

Mainly sidearm, helicopter, or a mix of the two. I used to braid very thin jute slings but now I just find thicker slings to be more efficient in terms of effort. I don't know if it's the weight but it just feels easier.

SerKraus wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 7:05pm:

Morphy wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 3:28pm: What throwing style are you using? Mainly sidearm, helicopter, or a mix of the two. I used to braid very thin jute slings but now I just find thicker slings to be more efficient in terms of effort. I don't know if it's the weight but it just feels easier.

I'm starting to suspect that much of what people prefer in terms of slings has to do with what style they are using. Side armers seem to love Balearic style (or heavier) slings. Must be something to that.

Morphy wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 10:32pm:

SerKraus wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 7:05pm: Morphy wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 3:28pm: What throwing style are you using? Mainly sidearm, helicopter, or a mix of the two. I used to braid very thin jute slings but now I just find thicker slings to be more efficient in terms of effort. I don't know if it's the weight but it just feels easier. I'm starting to suspect that much of what people prefer in terms of slings has to do with what style they are using. Side armers seem to love Balearic style (or heavier) slings. Must be something to that.

Sorry Morphy. I can't let you make such simple and understandable categorizing statements on here without an argument.

I've personally been using sidearm styles more and more with my paracord-and-leather asymmetric sling which weighs less than 20g.  Sling plus tennis ball weights less than 80g total.

I also use a 28" sling, which is way longer than most Balearic slingers prefer... so maybe the "feeling" of a longer but lighter sling is similar to a shorter one because they have similar inertia?  I don't know.  Maybe we just can't generalize anything about anything and slinging will have to remain magical and mysterious forever ;D

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 29^th, 2021 at 8:04am:

Morphy wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 10:32pm: SerKraus wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 7:05pm: Morphy wrote on Jan 28th, 2021 at 3:28pm: What throwing style are you using? Mainly sidearm, helicopter, or a mix of the two. I used to braid very thin jute slings but now I just find thicker slings to be more efficient in terms of effort. I don't know if it's the weight but it just feels easier. I'm starting to suspect that much of what people prefer in terms of slings has to do with what style they are using. Side armers seem to love Balearic style (or heavier) slings. Must be something to that. Sorry Morphy. I can't let you make such simple and understandable categorizing statements on here without an argument. I've personally been using sidearm styles more and more with my paracord-and-leather asymmetric sling which weighs less than 20g.  Sling plus tennis ball weights less than 80g total. I also use a 28" sling, which is way longer than most Balearic slingers prefer... so maybe the "feeling" of a longer but lighter sling is similar to a shorter one because they have similar inertia?  I don't know.  Maybe we just can't generalize anything about anything and slinging will have to remain magical and mysterious forever ;D

All I know is I’ve preferred the figure-8 for many years now which explains my garbage slinging and virtually all my other failures in life.

Seriously though I love paracord slings for both side arm and figure-8. The reverse is definitely not true though. Heavy Balearics for figure-8 is awful. Maybe some prefer it but not me.

I don’t have a lot of experience with Balearics yet, but I did play with loaded slings. The extra weight in the pouch definitely felt sluggish, like the shot had no power compared to the effort I put into the shot. I don’t know how that compares to heavy and stiff cordage though, and I wasn’t throwing sidearm at the time either. Maybe I should pull out the loaded slings again.

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 29^th, 2021 at 9:24am:

I don’t have a lot of experience with Balearics yet, but I did play with loaded slings. The extra weight in the pouch definitely felt sluggish, like the shot had no power compared to the effort I put into the shot. I don’t know how that compares to heavy and stiff cordage though, and I wasn’t throwing sidearm at the time either. Maybe I should pull out the loaded slings again.

Loaded slings?

Loaded slings, meaning weighted slings.

   The advantage to a sling with a heavy pouch is that you can hurl very light ammo if you wish.  The weight of the pouch rather than the projectile gives the sling momentum.

Rat Man wrote on Jan 29^th, 2021 at 2:00pm:

The advantage to a sling with a heavy pouch is that you can hurl very light ammo if you wish.  The weight of the pouch rather than the projectile gives the sling momentum.

That's exactly what I made them for.  When I first made them, I was slinging empty plastic Easter eggs that weighed about 1g each.  An extra 30g weight in the pouch makes a huge difference for ammo like that.

I can tell you that most spinners spin linen wet.
they damp it as it is going onto the wheel .It can be spun dry but it tends to hold together better wet .  I have  a lot of experience knotting and braiding . As a personal preference I do not like using Hemp. it seems to be very abrasive on my hands. I have soaked it before braiding but it seems to make no difference. This of course is simply my ten cents worth ,best of luck with your project .

Eudave wrote on Jan 31^st, 2021 at 12:54pm:

I can tell you that most spinners spin linen wet. they damp it as it is going onto the wheel .It can be spun dry but it tends to hold together better wet .  I have  a lot of experience knotting and braiding . As a personal preference I do not like using Hemp. it seems to be very abrasive on my hands. I have soaked it before braiding but it seems to make no difference. This of course is simply my ten cents worth ,best of luck with your project .

If you think hemp is abrasive then I wonder what you think about manila and sisal  ;D